Category: Author Interviews

Author Interview: Roxanne Troup

On By Only Picture BooksIn Author Interviews21 Comments

Welcome to Roxanne Troup, the subject of our September Author Interview.

These days, Roxanne lives in Colorado where she writes children’s books, hikes in the mountains, and cheers on her kids at sporting events. She also “visits schools to water seeds of literacy and teach about writing. (And sometimes remembers to water the plants in her own garden.)”

In addition to being the author of more than a dozen children’s books, she’s also a ghostwriter, a work-​for-​hire writer, a speaker, and a history fan (“I find history fascinating because it’s full of stories. But I only realized that as an adult. As a kid, I only remembered the history I lived.”)

Need a few fun facts, too? Try these:

  • She’s afraid of octopuses.
  • She grew up in a historic home along the waterways of Missouri.
  • She’s a certified chocolate lover (“If they gave out licenses for this, I’d definitely have one!”)

Let’s move straight to the interview to find out more about our new writer pal!

 RVC: You’ve got a very unusual story about how you discovered your love of reading. Care to share?

RT: I was an early reader. And while I don’t remember ever not reading, I vividly remember the summer I fell in love with reading. I was seven, and my little brother wasn’t too happy about it. He wanted to play imaginary games with me, not watch me read “boring books.” But I’d recently broken my neck in a tumbling accident, and after spending nearly six months in a neck brace followed by more months of physical therapy (and intermittent neck-​brace-​wearing), I’d gotten used to “boring.” For over a year, I couldn’t ride my bike or play on our swing set without wearing the brace. But I could read. And I read everything I could get my hands on.

RVC: Wow!

RT: During the school year, I was in the library every day. I sped through easy readers by Syd Hoff and Peggy Parrish. I checked out everything my library had by Judy Blume and Beverly Cleary. And that summer, I read whatever I could find in our house—from Disney’s Encyclopedia of Knowledge to old books like Life with Father. (And by “old,” I mean old. My dad was a teacher who couldn’t stand the thought of throwing books away, so every time his school updated their curriculum or the library updated their collection, we did too. Our attic was full of books!) Then, I stumbled upon Pippi Longstocking and The Borrowers and time disappeared. Reality melted away. I was no longer reading because I didn’t have anything else to do. I was hooked. I read those books over and over and over again.

RVC: I know exactly what you mean about reality melting way when you find the right books. It seems like you had every intention of being a lifelong educator. What appealed about the classroom?

RT: All the things I love about writing for kids: The curiosity; the creativity and resourcefulness; the humor. Kids are intuitively confident and smart. They’re artists, athletes, mathematicians, scientists, and engineers—all the things they forget they are and wish they could be as preteens. If I could help nurture that innate wonder and willingness to fail, even for a short time, I wanted to.

RVC: When did you first consider yourself to be a writer?

RT: Not until 2016. Even though I was consistently making money writing (I got my first writing-​related paycheck in 2009), it wasn’t until I decided to focus on kidlit that I started calling myself a “writer.” Instead, I’d say things like “I’m doing some freelance work” or “I’m ghostwriting.” Writing was something I did to help put food on the table and gas in the car. It wasn’t who I was. It took really immersing myself in the kidlit industry (and publishing my first kid’s book) to change that perspective.

RVC: Normally, I spend more time outlining an interview subject’s career and writing arc, but I want to jump ahead here. Why? Because I’m fascinated by how you’re keeping up successful careers as a picture book author, ghostwriter, freelance writer, freelance editor, and speaker. And all without an agent. Clearly, you have a good sense of the business side of things. So, how do you balance the creative side of writing with the business side?

RT: Some days not very well. But I had an epiphany a few years ago that if I wanted to do the thing I loved (write picture books), I had to start balancing and pruning my writing activities until all the writing I did connected to children’s books/​education in some way. I have an in-​depth presentation on this topic that I’ve given at my local SCBWI, but essentially, I discovered my writing niche—the thing that allows me to meet my goals (get paid via writing, get published under my own name, and write something I enjoy) without draining my creative reserves or taking time away from my family. Before that, I lived at the mercy of my inbox.

RVC: Please tell me more.

RT: Not to bore anyone, but as an example: I never advertised my ghostwriting services. Still, word has a way of getting around, and after a year or two ghosting, I found myself with so many clients I couldn’t do anything else. My family began feeling the pressure and I became frustrated. My clients were needy. They came to me unprepared, and, while the whole family enjoyed my paychecks, I didn’t enjoy what I was doing. So, I raised my fees to weed out clients and maintain my earnings, which gave me more time to do what I loved. I repeated that process several times before eventually deciding I wouldn’t take on any more adult ghosting clients. (I do still ghost for a few clients/​publishers I have a track record with.) Instead, I would focus on kidlit. Now I consult with one of the most prestigious ghosting firms in the nation—working almost exclusively on picture books. I have more time. I still get paid to write, and it’s good practice doing what I love. I’ve done that in each of my freelance service areas, and while there are still days that feel more “business‑y” and less “kidlit‑y” and creative than I like, publishing is a business that requires both. So, I just remind myself of that and work toward a better-​for-​me balance the next day. And on the days I don’t have anything pressing, I work on my own projects. It’s still not a perfect balance, but it is getting better.

RVC: If you had to make a pie chart or Venn diagram to show your writing career right now, what would it look like?

RT: Nothing in real life is this neat and tidy, but in general, I spend the bulk of my writing time on…

RVC: How many different projects are you typically working on at any one moment?

RT: It varies from week to week (and I tend to think/​schedule in monthly chunks), so I’m not exactly sure how to answer this except to say—several.

Some of my work is seasonal, like writing websites for schools. Other stuff is tied to publishing cycles—like my upcoming picture book release—so even though it’s on my calendar, the work I need to do for it is sporadic. I nearly always have two or three different freelance projects in various stages of development on my monthly calendar, as well as trade market research and submissions to track (and, on occasion, contract negotiations!). Depending on the season, I may also have education market projects happening—but when I do, I try to limit the amount of time I dedicate to freelance gigs. I’m still building my income stream for speaking, so that piece of the pie is also sporadic. Everything considered, it’s unusual if I don’t have a least one writing-​related deadline each week.

RVC: Let’s talk books. This year, you’ve got not 1, not 2, not 3, not 4, not 5, but 6!!! kidlit books coming out this fall. These aren’t traditional trade books, but rather work-​for-​hire. Please explain the difference.

RT: Trade books are the books you’re familiar with; you find them in bookstores and associate each one to a specific author. Typically, that author has created the book from scratch and “sold” it to a publisher. (Publishers don’t actually buy books/​manuscripts. They purchase “rights” to a work—like the exclusive right to publish and sell a work in English, or the right to create an audiobook of the work, etc. Each of these rights is negotiated in a contract between the creator and the publisher, but unless sold, the copyright always remains with the creator.) Often, creators receive an advance against royalties for these books, and since they receive a royalty off every book sold, they’re heavily invested in marketing and promotion.

Work-​for-​hire books are different—from the copyright level up. Work-​for-​hire is a copyright term that means, “work made on behalf of another, in which the commissioner owns the copyright.” (That’s my layman’s definition.) It’s sometimes referred to as “work made for hire” or WFH. Work-​for-​hire can be anything from ghostwriting to the creative work you do as an employee. But in all WFH, the individual or company that hires you to create the work owns the copyright to whatever you created. Once the work is completed and you are paid, the individual or company can do what they like with that work—edit it, publish it, sell it, whatever—it belongs to them. Sometimes the creator gets credit for works made for hire. Sometimes they don’t. In general, WFH writers are paid a flat-​fee for their work, and thus are not expected to promote it.

RVC: Thanks for the explanation here. How does WFH work in kidlit?

RT: In kidlit, work-​for-​hire typically involves two markets: the education market and IP, or intellectual property. The education market is work created for (and sold to) schools and libraries. Publishers generate the ideas for these books/​series based on school curriculum and market need. They’re not typically available in bookstores, but authors do get credit for them. And since educational publishers have established relationships/​reputations with the schools and libraries that purchase these books, authors can expect that lots and lots of kids will read their work.

The IP market includes anything an author didn’t think up themselves. It can be a series cooked up by a publisher/​packager to meet a market demand, ghostwriting, or a book featuring licensed characters like Spider-​Man. IP books are generally sold in bookstores alongside other trade books. And, for the author, can range from flat-​fee to royalty-​based contracts (though you should expect any royalty to be lower than what you’d receive from a work you thought up and created yourself). These books sell really well! Some of your favorite series might even be on the list.

If you’re interested in learning more about work-​for-​hire writing, specifically in the education market, I have an article on LinkedIn you might enjoy.

RVC: What are some of the unexpected benefits of writing work-​for-​hire kidlit?

RT: WFH is a great source of additional income. Unlike trade projects, WFH is a guaranteed sale/​paycheck. It keeps me writing (which we all know is a necessary part of improving craft) and gives me experience working with and thinking like editors. It builds my portfolio and can give me books for use in soliciting author visits. And because WFH is generally flat-​fee, I’m not expected to participate in marketing—which, especially this year with six books coming out in one season, is a relief. (Can you imagine having to promote six books at once!?!?)

RVC: I sure hope so since I’ve got six coming out next year. Let’s talk about that later! Now, how are you getting these deals without an agent?

RT: With the exception of IP projects, most agents don’t handle WFH deals. The flat-​fee model just isn’t worth it for them. So, I contact publishers/​packagers directly with a submissions packet. A WFH submissions packet includes a cover letter expressing your interest and areas of expertise, a resume/​CV, and targeted writing samples. The publisher keeps your info on file and contacts you with projects that fit your experience and/​or samples.

RVC: What about the ghostwriting gigs?

RT: The ghostwriting I do for adults has all happened organically. The kidlit ghostwriting I do comes both organically and through the firm I consult with. I’d love to get more licensed character IP work—especially in the early reader and chapter book markets—but from what I understand, those jobs typically route through an agent or established editorial relationships.

RVC: Are you actively seeking an agent?

RT: Yes and no. I don’t currently have anything out with agents, but if I see that someone is reopening to subs or has a specific wish list item that fits what I create, I don’t hesitate to query. I’m just not spending a ton of time researching agents or sending them work. I’m not opposed to working with an agent—I’d love to be able to walk through the doors an agent can open for me—I’m just not waiting around for one either. I know, whether I have an agent or not, my career is in my hands.

RVC: What’s the most common misconception about work-​for-​hire work?

RT: That it’s a fast and easy “back door” into publishing. While WFH timelines are shorter (books typically release a year or less after contract), the work itself does not require any less effort. Good writing is good writing regardless of genre or sales avenue. And readers are readers. They deserve for authors to be just as meticulous with research, just as purposeful with word choice and mechanics, just as enthusiastic and creative (if appropriate) with WFH as any other contract.

RVC: You’re doing a lot of adult work, too, with your writing. In what ways does that affect your kidlit efforts?

RT: I do try to limit the amount of adult work I’m taking on so I don’t completely derail my kidlit efforts. But even adult projects are beneficial. The paychecks I get for adult freelance work helps subsidize the work I really want to do. It also improves my writing craft and marketing skills. To succeed in this industry, I have to be able to transfer thought to page in a coherent manner. I also have to be able to “sell” myself and/​or my work to agents, editors, booksellers, parents, teachers who might want to invite me into the classroom, and all sorts of other “gate keepers” (which is really just an ominous-​sounding phrase for book buyers.) And all those things take practice. Adult freelance forces me to practice.

RVC: This is a picture book blog, so I have to ask this—what’s the story of your first published picture book, My Grandpa, My Tree, and Me (Yeehoo Press, March 2023)?

RT: Somewhere on social media, I saw a post about a new publisher. I went to their website and saw they were looking for agricultural books so I started researching. When I ran across a YouTube video of a farmer harvesting pecans, I knew I had my topic. I couldn’t get the image of the farmer shaking that tree out of my head—all those pecans falling like torrential rain.

Growing up in a farming community, I had some experience with agriculture and pecans. But no one I knew harvested pecans by tractor. We gathered pecans like the wild products they were, not from hundreds of trees at a time. This dichotomy provided the structure of the story, and my first draft came together quickly.

Unfortunately, I was the most experienced writer in my critique group and started submitting before I should have. I sent the manuscript to four different publishers with no response. On the fifth try an editor saw enough potential in the work to request an R&R (revise and resubmit). I didn’t agree with the direction they wanted me to take the story, but tried to figure out what underlying issue they were pointing out. Eventually I realized my draft was too “education market‑y.” I had to figure out how to make it work for the trade market. I went back to work and a month or so later had an opportunity to submit my new draft to the wonderful Katie Heit at Scholastic. The story was too quiet for Scholastic’s list, but she was so complimentary I knew I’d hit the right note with my revisions. I spent the next year-​and-​a-​half submitting, but now, I was getting responses.

I finally found my publisher in May of ’21—Yeehoo Press. Yeehoo pubs picture books that work for both the US and Chinese markets, so my informational fiction was perfect for them. Four months later, it was official. My first trade PB was under contract!

Yeehoo contracted Kendra Binney to illustrate. Her soft watercolors were the perfect pairing for my lyrical text. I’m excited for its upcoming cover reveal!

RVC: What was the most valuable lesson that book taught you?

RT: To be patient—and keep working. Good writers get turned down all the time. Published writers get turned down, too. But as cliché as it sounds, it really does take just one “yes.” Publishing is a partnership. You have to be patient to find the perfect partner for your particular story, and you have to keep working to make sure your story is the perfect fit for a particular publisher.

RVC: Please talk about the role of community in your writing life.

RT: When I first started writing kidlit, I couldn’t justify the cost of writing classes or even an SCBWI membership. But I joined Laura Purdie Salas’ Facebook group for writers (now defunct) and started lurking and learning. Laura taught me a ton—just by following her career and reading her comments on people’s posts. She was so helpful and kind, but also honest. When she created Writing for the Educational Market, I knew it would be practical and encouraging, just like her. I purchased it immediately and got my first book contract shortly thereafter. I highly recommend her workshop-​in-​a-​book to everyone interested in the education market. It’s full of info I couldn’t find anywhere else. (And believe me; I looked!)

RVC: Thanks to your rec, I just ordered a copy myself. Watch out, educational market!

RT: After a few WFH books, I wanted to jump the fence, so to speak, into the trade market. Laura’s career convinced me it was possible, but I needed to find a regular critique group—not just occasional online swapping partners. So, I joined SCBWI and started getting involved in my local group. It was so refreshing to find people who got what I was trying to do. They understood the struggles of writing kidlit, but also the joy of finally finishing a decent draft.

Today, I co-​lead that group. And over the years, I’ve come to realize how incredibly generous and supportive the entire kidlit community is—if you are willing to put in the work.

RVC: What’s your most important good writing habit or routine?

RT: To write—whether I feel like it or not. I can’t wait for the muse to strike. I have deadlines. I have to get something on the page. If it’s no good, I can edit it. But I can’t edit a blank page. Eventually, if I put in the work, I’ll have something I’m proud of.

RVC: Lastly, what advice do you give to aspiring picture book writers?

RT: Learn the business and take the time to develop your craft. While writing may be creative, publishing is a business. You have to get both right to be successful. How? Read. A lot. Write even more. And find a group of creatives who can help you get better (not just those who will gush over whatever you create).

RVC: One final question for this part of the interview. Beyond the six work-​for-​hire books coming out this fall, what’s something upcoming that you’re really excited about?

RT: My debut trade picture book releases in March. That’s really exciting! (As a newbie, I’m still not sure what all that will entail, but I’m doing my best to learn as I go.) And I just signed a contract for another trade picture book slated for Spring 2024.

RVC: Congrats on that, Roxanne. But now the first part of the interview is over. Now it’s time for…the…LIGHTNING…ROUND!!! Are you ready?

RT: Ready.

RVC: What secret talent do you have that few would expect?

RT: I randomly remember lines to songs and movies from my childhood and use them in everyday life. When my children are being overly emotional—“Calm yourself, Iago” (in the voice of Jafar from Disney’s Aladdin). When my mother-​in-​law finally goes home—“I think we’re alone now” (from Tommy James and the Shondells). When someone asks me a stupid question—“It’s possible, pig” (as Westley from The Princess Bride)—though not always out loud!

RVC: Pick a theme song that describes where your life is at right now.

RT: “The Hustle” by Van McCoy.

RVC: What picture book author would you want to write YOUR life story?

RT: She doesn’t write nonfiction, but Beth Ferry. I love everything she creates.

RVC: Five things you can’t do your work without.

RT: A computer and Internet connection, Microsoft Office, a big desk calendar, and the library.

RVC: Who sets the standard for picture books about history?

RT: Oh gosh. There are so many really good ones … Barb Rosenstock.

RVC: What’s the best compliment a child ever gave you or your books?

RT: Now, I get it!

RVC: Thanks so much, Roxanne! And for those of you who read to the very end, OPB has a treat for you. Watch for an OPB cover reveal this week for Roxanne’s forthcoming picture book, My Grandpa, My Tree, and Me!

Author Interview: Linda Elovitz Marshall

On By Only Picture BooksIn Author Interviews

This month’s Author Interview is with Linda Elovitz Marshall, who’s a “writer of books for young children and other cool stuff.” I know her from a previous critique group and from Jane Yolen’s Picture Book Boot Camp. With all the success Linda’s having lately, it seems the right time to find out why.

Let’s head right to the interview!

RVC: Let’s start with the Big News. You’ve got a new picture book coming out in a few days—Measuring a Year: A Rosh Hashanah Story. What’s the elevator pitch?

LM: No matter what you celebrate or how you count, every year has a beginning and an ending. Considering that the Jewish New Year–Rosh Hashanah–is a time of introspection, of looking inward, I wondered…How could anyone measure a year? Specifically, how could a CHILD measure a year?

RVC: How did that story come about?

LM: I was sitting in the synagogue with my son and his family during a High Holiday service. When it was time for the sermon, the sanctuary became solemn, hushed. Cantor Jodi Schectman–who had only recently taken her position at Congregation Beth Emeth in Albany, New York–came to the bimah (the pulpit). She hummed a melody. I recognized the tune but couldn’t quite place it. She stopped humming and talked about changes in her life–selling her house in New Jersey, sending her youngest off to college, taking a new job in Albany. She hummed a few more bars. Then asked, rhetorically, “So, how DO you measure a year?” She described more changes in her life. Then she shared with the congregation that she’d been diagnosed with a Stage IV cancer. Once more, she asked, “How DO you measure a year?”

RVC: Wow.

LM: How DO you? I wondered. How does anyone? How does a child? What are the good things? The not-​so-​good? I wanted to take the lessons of Cantor Schectman’s powerful sermon…and share them with the world. And so I did. Measuring a Year: A Rosh Hashanah Story is dedicated to the memory of Cantor Jodi Schectman.

RVC: Measuring a Year is illustrated by Zara González Hoang. What did she bring to this powerful story? 

LM: Zara’s beautiful illustrations brought much humor and warmth to the story. She also beautifully tied the text into the annual cycle of Jewish holidays.

RVC: Let’s circle back to the beginning. Rumor has it that you were speaking in full sentences before you were a year old. Reality or myth? 

LM: It must be true. Why would I ever dispel such a myth? Truth is, I didn’t walk until I was almost two years old. Meanwhile, I listened and absorbed a lot. When I started talking, I had a lot to say.

RVC: When did you first discover you had a gift for writing?

LM: In fifth grade, I wrote a story about my new baby sister. My teacher suggested I might become a writer. But it wasn’t until decades later that I actually began writing professionally. In the interim, I had numerous careers, from owning a bookstore to capturing oral histories to raising sheep.

RVC: What kind of formal training did you have as a writer?

LM: None. However, I always read a lot. I’m also fortunate to have a good ear for language. Most importantly (and probably most under-​rated), I had teachers who taught grammar. I highly recommend reading (and re-​reading) The Elements of Style by Strunk and White. It’s a great handbook for writers.

RVC: Since you’re a lover of words, it’s no surprise you ran your own bookshop. How did that happen?

LM: An opportunity came–and I grabbed it! That was shortly after I’d left my Ph.D. program in Anthropology. I still had children home and I was doing oral histories and writing articles for magazines (freelance). My bookstore began as a spinoff of my father’s bargain business (the late, great Building #19, Inc whose story is told in my self-​published biography of my father, Good Stuff Cheap: The Story of Jerry Ellis and Building #19.)

I soon transformed it into my own store–BOOKS FOR BEANS, INC. With a background in early childhood education, I specialized in books for teachers and children. And with my background in the bargain business, I made sure to sell good stuff, cheap!

RVC: What’s the story behind your first picture book sale?

LM: I was ringing the register in my bookstore when a customer said something that sparked an idea. That idea led to another idea…which led to another idea…and the idea of a story was born.

Eventually, I attended a conference for children’s book writers where I presented two manuscripts to an editor for critiques. She didn’t like either. I asked what she didn’t like about them. She told me. I listened. I revised, then sent the stories back to her with a note saying something like, “Thank you for helping me with these stories.” About a week later, that editor acquired both of my stories!

RVC: You’re well known for being a big-​time reviser. What does your process look like?

LM: I try to listen…and learn. I want my words to flow, to sound beautiful. But more importantly, the story has to work. Sometimes, I share my works-​in-​progress with my critique groups. Sometimes, I don’t. I often show my work to my husband. He’s usually my very first reader…and he’s a very good one!

RVC: What’s your relationship with critique groups?

LM: I LOVE my critique groups. Right now, I’m in three, each with a different focus and style. I also enjoy critiquing privately. I served as Picture Book Mentor for my SCBWI chapter. In addition, I’m one of the Rate Your Story judges. I’m always delighted to work with new writers!

RVC: What can you tell us about the importance of community in a writer’s life?

LM: Community is so important, especially for writers. We give each other strength and buoy each other up when things are down. There are many times when things don’t go smoothly–when there’s rejection after rejection after rejection. Having a community of writers is a great balm. Sometimes, it’s even better than ice cream!

RVC: Complete the following sentence. “Linda Marshall is a writer who…”

LM: Linda Marshall is a writer who cares. She cares about accuracy, about kindness, about children, and about making the world a better place…in whatever way she can.

RVC: You have some clear throughlines in your picture books. What are those, and how important are they to you?

LM: My throughlines focus on things that are important to me–for example, the earth (see Saving the Countryside: The Story of Beatrix Potter and Peter Rabbit), public health (see The Polio Pioneer: Dr. Jonas Salk and the Polio Vaccine), and nature (see Good Night, Wind).

I put my heart into my writing…and try to make the world better.

RVC: Who sets the standard for nonfiction picture book writing?

LM: I learned about writing non-​fiction picture books from the great editor Carolyn Yoder. She taught me to apply Ph.D.-quality research to my work for children. I love research–and I love her lesson! Thank you, again, Carolyn Yoder!

RVC: In all your experience as a picture book author, what has most surprised you?

LM: The children’s writing community is wonderfully kind and open. To my surprise, it’s made me kinder, too. I’m very grateful for that.

RVC: What’s your best tip for aspiring picture book writers?

LM: Read, read, read. Read GOOD stuff, stuff that makes you feel. Pay attention to the flow of words. Pay attention to your emotions. Pay attention to the world around. Feel. Be aware. And never lose your sense of wonder. Or your sense of possible. Or, of course, your sense of humor.

RVC: One last question for this part of the interview. It’s brag time! What cool new things should we expect from you in the future?

LM: In addition to Measuring a Year, I have several other books in the works. My forthcoming books include: Sisters in Science: Marie Curie, Bronia Dluska, and the Atomic Power of Sisterhood (Knopf, 2023), Bob Marshall: Defender of the Wilderness (South Dakota Historical Society, 2023), and Mexican Dreidel (KarBen/​Lerner, 2023).

There’s one more but (shhh….) as of today, it’s not yet been announced.

RVC: Alright, Linda. It’s time for the SPEED ROUND. Fast questions followed by fast answers. Are you ready?

LM: Yes!

RVC: What is your biggest time waster?

LM: I check my email far too often. Hey, you never know when something good might pop in!

RVC: What animal or plant should be renamed?

LM: Shrub. What a yucky name! Like someone who can’t keep his pants up. You know, what a shrub that guy is…

RVC: You’re having a literary brunch. Which three writers (dead or alive) would you invite?

LM: Mark Twain, Sappho, and (of course) Jane Yolen.

RVC: What’s your favorite Jane Yolen picture book?

LM: No fair! That’s like asking which of my children is my favorite. I love Mrs. Noah’s Doves. It’s beautiful the way Jane Yolen spins a story–kind and sensitive and a bit magical. And, oh, her language! Pure poetry!

RVC: Five things you can’t do your job without?

LM: I need my computer (or a pen and paper), empty space to stare into, quiet, enthusiasm for my topic, and a bit of dark chocolate.

RVC: Best compliment a kid ever gave you (or your books)?

LM: The best–the absolute best–was when my husband overheard our grandson talking to his friends. One friend said his grandmother is a doctor, the other said his grandfather is a doctor. Our grandson proudly announced that his grandmother is a “writer…and she’s coming to our school!”

RVC: Thanks so much, Linda!

Author Interview: Jocelyn Watkinson

On By Only Picture BooksIn Author Interviews5 Comments

This month’s Author Interview is with Jocelyn Watkinson. The idea for her debut picture book–The Three Canadian Pigs: A Hockey Story, which releases in August 2022–didn’t come out of nowhere. She’s from Canada, after all! Plus, she attended a lot of hockey games to see her little brother play goalie for the local rep hockey team. (Yeah, she brought along books and read in the stands the whole time, she admits!)

Today, Jocelyn lives in California, where she:

  • plays soccer
  • enjoys board games
  • sips hot tea
  • refurbishes old furniture

To find out more about her and her debut picture book, let’s get to the interview!

RVC: We have to start things off with the #1 question that everyone has. On a scale of 5 to 5,000, how much do you miss Tim Horton’s double double?

JW: Haha–great lead question! Can I answer infinity??

For those that don’t know, a “double double” is a coffee with two creams and two sugars–known to be the most popular order at Timmies! But since I am a non-​coffee drinker (crazy, eh?), I only drink tea. But there is no comparison to Tim Horton’s Steeped Tea, which I miss dearly!

RVC: Since I’m a fellow non-​coffee-​drinker, I fully appreciate your answer. But let’s circle back to the beginning. What’s the story of how you got interested in writing?

JW: The short version of the story is that my husband got hired at a California university as a professor so we would be moving to the United States. Because of visa reasons and employment restrictions at the time, I was ineligible to work, so I found writing to keep me busy! Right before we made our move south of the border, our dog George got sick and we had to put him down. With all the hectic moving plans, the grief didn’t sink in until I was sitting alone in my new California apartment. For some reason, the idea of a kids book to help deal with the loss of a dog came to me, and for some reason, in rhyme! (Bad rhyme, I’ll admit!) That book is now firmly on the shelf but it got me into the kidlit world, so it definitely will always have a special place in my heart.

RVC: By “on the shelf,” you mean something like “tucked away in a drawer, never to be seen again,” right? To me, “on the shelf” means available in book form at Amazon or my local indie (which for me is Bookstore1Sarasota).

JW: Exactly.

RVC: Gotcha. At what point did you decide you were going to get serious about publishing kidlit?

JW: I decided to finally go to a SCBWI conference. I arrived and thought “yes…this is where I’m meant to be!” I also won a raffle for a one-​on-​one with an agent and felt like that was a big sign of encouragement from the universe. 😊

RV: Congrats on that!

JW: The advice I gained from the conference helped guide me to a few critique groups and ultimately to Renée LaTulippe’s Rhyme and Meter course (which is an absolute MUST if you are going to write in rhyme) where I learned meter (the real trick to writing in rhyme) and the proper way to rhyme. Once I felt confident in these craft skills was when I felt like I was getting pretty serious about it.

RVC: What’s the story of how The Three Canadian Pigs: A Hockey Story came about?

JW: I love fractured fairytales. I find them to be so fun and creative. I happened to be working on a different idea and was bouncing the idea off my mom. Then she just blurted out, “You should re-​write the three little pigs, but make them Canadian!” So, I have to completely owe the idea to her (thanks Mom!).

As soon as I figured out that the wolf would want to eat their Canadian bacon, the puns just started flowing.

RVC: What are you most proud of regarding this book?

JW: I think just the perseverance of how many edits it took to get it to where it is now and not stopping until it was just right. I think I had 47 versions of this story. When writing in rhyme, you’re constantly tweaking to make sure your readers don’t trip over your words.

RVC: If you could go back and do one thing differently to get you to that debut book deal faster, what would it be?

JW: I don’t think I could have got this book any faster, to be honest. I am absolutely an outlier when it comes to this. I have been so lucky in this industry so far and have a lot of people to owe my success to.

RVC: Tell me more about what happened.

JW: Once I had the idea mostly flushed out, I reached out to Shannon Stocker who I hired for her professional critique services. I met her the year prior when I didn’t get a PBChat Mentorship that I applied for but was awarded a critique from her. After some very helpful feedback, I applied to the PBChat Mentorship program in 2020 and was selected as a mentee by Lori Degman! She was amazing to work with and whipped my manuscript into shape.


Then as a finale to the mentorship, we had a showcase where agents and editors were invited to shop through our work. I didn’t get any interest until the very last day where Sarah Rockett from Sleeping Bear Press requested to see the manuscript. Then within a month, I was told we had a deal! I think that’s pretty fast compared to industry standards!

RVC: It sounds fast to me, and Sarah Rockett is terrific–we did an interview with her in 2020.

JW: Cool!

RVC: So, you like to write in rhyme (I know this from your social media names such as “Jocelynwritesinrhyme”). I’m a big fan of rhyme—I just wrote an article on that very thing for Writer’s Digest, in fact! What are some of the top tips I should’ve included in that article?

JW: I think any seasoned rhymer will tell you that rhyming isn’t for the faint hearted. Be prepared to work and work and work at it until readers don’t trip over any parts of your story while reading aloud. This takes tons of practice, patience, and wonderful critique partners. Also, another plug to take a rhyme and meter course and learn the craft. Check out Renée LaTulippe’s variety of rhyme and meter courses if you want to learn the right way to rhyme. She also has some great YouTube videos.

RVC: What’s something about your writing process that might surprise people?

JW: When I get an idea for a story, I come up with key words and then make a list of words that rhyme with them and see what kind of lines come to mind, then I start to build out the story from there.

RVC: What special strategies do you use for overcoming writer’s block?

JW: First, to write in rhyme, and goofy rhyme at that, I need to be in a mood that matches. I tend to listen to Adam Sandler, The Lonely Island, or any artist that sings funny songs–their silliness can really start to get the juices flowing.

RVC: You’re not sitting on your laurels—you’ve already got another picture book deal. And a collaboration, no less. 

JW: Oh, yes! I am very excited about that. At the end of my mentorship with Lori Degman, I pitched the idea of a sequel to her Travel Guide for Monsters book which came out with Sleeping Bear Press in April 2020. The book follows a group of monsters across the US visiting all the iconic landmarks. I remember seeing that book when she was promoting it, before we even knew each other and remembering how clever it was and the illustrations were so amazing. So, during our mentorship, I thought it would be great if the monsters could also go through Canada!

I can’t believe that she agreed to take a look at what I had written so far, but she did and then we pitched it back to Sleeping Bear Press (again with Sarah Rockett) and they agreed to publish it! It was quite serendipitous how it all came together; the mentorship, the book deal, and how the previous book lined up with the same editor and sequel, etc.

RVC: That’s an amazing story. Now, one last thing before we get to the final part of the interview. What are you working on these days? 

JW: Building my portfolio so I can be successful in querying an agent. But my current WIP is called The Cantankerous Canker…not quite sure where I’m going with it yet but “cantankerous” is becoming my new favorite word!

RVC: Good luck with the agent search, but now it’s time for the LIGHTNING ROUND! Zippy quick answers and zappy fast answers. Ready?

JW: Oh ya, fer sure!

RVC: #1 Canadian expression that Americans just can’t appreciate.

JW: I gotta go with the classic “Eh!” It is pretty iconic when you think of Canadians but it is so versatile.

  • Want someone to agree with you? Say “Eh?”
  • Need clarification on something? Say “Eh?”
  • Just really excited about something? Work “Eh!” into your sentence.

RVC: What word do you always misspell?

JW: “Convenience.” Did I get it right?? I always have to say “CON-​VEN-​I-​ENCE”

RVC: If you built a themed hotel, what theme would you use?

JW: Probably something sports or board-​game themed. I love board game nights with friends!

RVC: What books are on your nightstand?

JW: Catkwondo, Jack B. Ninja, and The Three Ninja Pigs. My son is big into Taekwondo right now!

RVC: Most underappreciated but awesome picture book?

JW: It’s Only Stanley by Jon Agee. So clever and simple and in rhyme. I hope one day to write something like that.

RVC: Five words that sum up your picture book philosophy.

JW:  Make the grownups laugh, too!

RVC: Thanks so much, Jocelyn. Best of luck with your debut!

Author Interview: Pat Zietlow Miller

On By Only Picture BooksIn Author Interviews2 Comments

The June 2022 Author Interview came about as a fortuitous accident, of sorts. I recently attended the FL SCBWI conference in Orlando (my roundup post on that is here) and completely at random, I ended up at Pat Zietlow Miller’s lunch table at the Hilton Orlando/​Lake Buena Vista not once but twice! Pat’s interesting stories there in addition to her terrific keynote and panel discussions told me that she HAD to be the subject of the next Author Interview.

While Bruce Coville is indicating that he’s the star of this photo, the yellow arrow is correctly identifying that the proper focus is Pat Zietlow Miller. 🙂

I’m not at all ashamed to admit that I used the Wisconsiner-​to-​Wisconsiner secret connection to make this interview happen. (I mentioned cheese curds, supper clubs, and Friday fish fries–in that exact order.) And it worked! Unsurprisingly, Pat even emailed me the Monday after the conference before I had a chance to follow up with her with an official invitiation to be on OPB. Talk about being a pro!

Now, you probably already know all about Pat Zietlow Miller, but here’s a very quick refresher…

  • She wanted to be a writer ever since her seventh-​grade English teacher read her paper about square-​dancing skirts out loud in class and said: “This is the first time anything a student has written has given me chills.”
  • She started out as a newspaper reporter and wrote about everything from dartball and deer-​hunting to diets and découpage. Then, she joined an insurance company–and then another–and edited their newsletters and magazines.
  • These days, Pat focuses on her favorite thing–writing picture books. She’s sold 23 books and is always working on more.
  • She has one wonderful husband, two delightful daughters, and two well-​pampered cats.
  • Pat’s favorite things are: 
    • Colors – Purple and blue.
    • Animals – Cats and kittens.
    • Food – Potatoes, served almost any way. And dark chocolate. (But separately, not mixed in with the potatoes.) And a really good omelet.
    • Flowers – Tulips and pansies.
    • Activities – Reading. Walking around exploring new places. Singing along to the radio. Learning new things.

With that, let’s zip ahead to the interview to hear from my new Wisconsin buddy herself. Onward!

RVC: Like so many kidlit writers, it seems as if you had an important early experience with a teacher that really got things going for you.

PZM: I had a couple teachers that were amazingly supportive of me early on. The first was in fourth grade where our teacher had us keep a journal. We’d write little things based on prompts, and then she’d make comments. These were just two- or three-​paragraph things, but I remember my fourth-​grade teacher, Chloe Wandschneider, telling me that I was an excellent writer. I remember being so proud.

When I went to high school, I had several teachers that were great, too. I had a journalism advisor when I wrote for the school paper, and he was amazing and encouraging, though also really hard on me–he really pushed me. Then I had another teacher who told me that my work reminded her of Nora Ephron, which is probably the best compliment I ever got in my entire life because Nora Ephron is amazing.

So, yeah, I feel like throughout my entire career, I had teachers that supported me and encouraged me.

RVC: I love it when teachers make such a difference. Now, what were some of the things you were reading back then?

PZM: I read everything. I read all the Encyclopedia Brown books and read the Boxcar Children’s series. I read Anne of Green Gables. I read Bridge to Terabithia and The Westing Game–those are my two favorites. Then I read a lot of stuff written for adults. My mom just gave me a library card and said, “Go for it!”

After my teacher said that my writing reminded her of Nora Ephron, I read everything she’d ever written because I didn’t know who she was. Doing so much reading made me a much better writer.

RVC: You’re one of the few writers I’ve interviewed here who’s talked about Encyclopedia Brown. That was one of my early favorites, too. That and The Great Brain.

PZM: I should have mentioned The Great Brain. I read ALL The Great Brain books.

RVC: Yeah, those are amazing. But let’s talk about the transition from when you went from being a student to being a professional writer.

PZM: When I started going to school at UW-​Oshkosh. I thought I was going to be a sports writer for the Chicago Tribune–that was my goal. I’d been a sports editor of my high school paper, I’d won some sports writing awards from the local press association, and I’d worked part time through high school and college at my local daily newspaper as a sports writer. I covered American Legion baseball games and got paid $10 to cover doubleheaders and I thought I was rich!

RVC: I can imagine. Ten buckeroonis was a lot to a kid back then.

PZM: At college, I double majored in English because I loved English, too. Honestly, it never occurred to me that I could have a book published because I didn’t know anybody who did. I mean, it just seemed like those couldn’t be real people. So, I graduated and worked as a full-​time sportswriter in Wisconsin for a while.

I did try writing a picture book while I was in college just for fun, because I was still reading them. I sent it off to one publisher. I just picked a publisher’s address at random, and I mailed it off. I got a rejection. Writing more picture books wasn’t something I was seriously thinking would be my career. That didn’t happen until I was 39 when I wondered, “ ‘Okay, why couldn’t it be my career?” At that point, I was older and more mature. The internet existed. I knew I could figure it out.

RVC: Here at OPB, I run into quite a few journalists who moved into kidlit after making a name for themselves in newspapers and/​or magazines, but you’re the first I can recall who did sports writing. What appealed about sports writing?

PZM: My dad got Sports Illustrated when I was growing up, and I read everything in it. Jill Lieber from Neenah, Wisconsin, wrote for them. I grew up in Oshkosh, Wisconsin. I remember thinking how cool it was that she was the only woman who wrote for Sports Illustrated, and she was 30 minutes from my house. That showed me that maybe it’d be possible for me.

I also read Frank Deford and Rick Reilly and I just loved how they put words together. They were such good writers. It inspired me, and I was already a big sports fan. I watched the [Green Bay] Packers and the [Milwaukee] Bucks. I was really into sports at that point. I liked the idea of combining the two things [sports and writing] together.

RVC: What’s the best lesson from being a sportswriter that you use on a regular basis in your kidlit?

PZM: Don’t get annoyed when someone edits your copy.

Back then, I wrote up my story, it’d go off to the sports editor, he’d do whatever he did with it, and then it’d go to the copy desk, and they did whatever they did to it, and I learned pretty quickly to take the edits. I’d look at it and say, “How can I do better next time so they don’t have to edit it as much?” I got very good at writing stories that could get through their process. It made me a better writer. I also learned how to write quickly and not be overly precious about it because I had a deadline. That helps a lot, too. These days, I can sit down and crank out at least a solid first draft.

RVC: How many years were you in the insurance business?

PZM: 29 years. It’s somewhere I never thought I’d end up. I worked in communications the whole time, so at least it was writing or editing. There was a brief time when I tried to be an actual insurance person and worked in underwriting. That was a dismal failure.

Underwriting is a great career path, but it’s not MY career path.

RVC: Gotcha. But these days, your only job is writing, right?

PZM: For almost a year now.

RVC: What’s the most surprising thing about it?

PZM: I have a huge sense of relief.

RVC: How so?

PZM: Working at an insurance company was a great career path for my family, and I worked with great people, and I learned a lot. I’m also incredibly well insured for a writer because I learned a lot about insurance. But I have such a sense of relief that I’m not in corporate meetings anymore. I’m not listening to people talk and thinking How can you possibly be using that jargon? and editing what they’re saying in my head. So, that’s huge.

RVC: I thought I was the only person who edited others in my own head. Whew!

PZM: The second thing is that I can set my own schedule. I don’t have to work from eight to five. I don’t have to get dressed up to go to work, unless it’s for a Zoom meeting, so I can wear whatever I want to wear. It’s a great sense of freedom to be able to work on what makes me happy whenever and however I feel inspired to do so.

RVC: Let’s talk about writerly routines. What does a typical day look like for you as a writer?

PZM: When I started, I thought I should have a routine. I felt guilty for not having one for a while, like I was doing this wrong. Then I realized that as long as I got my stuff done, it didn’t matter if I had a routine or not.

I always knew I wasn’t a morning person and working on my own has cemented that fact. So, I no longer try to get up at the crack of dawn. Instead, I get up around 9:30 or 10am. That works for me, unless I have to be someplace. Then I usually go through my email because a lot of my time is responding to things that people send me–questions, requests from editors, or whatever.

RVC: I often tell my students–who don’t always believe me–that at this point in my career, about 60–70% of my “writing time” is actually spent on the business of writing instead of the fun writing.

PZM: Yes! That’s true. I’m pretty active on social media, too. I have to figure out What am I going to post today? And What am I going to respond to? This year, especially because I’ve got five books coming out, a lot of my time has been going to promotion. I’m always doing an interview or a blog post or being on a panel or something. With the time that’s left, I sit down and think What do I have to revise for an editor?

I hope to make a little more time to focus on creating new things because some days it feels like an afterthought. It really should be one of my first things. I’m trying to do better.

RVC: How many current projects do you have?

PZM: I’ve got three things that are currently out on sub that editors are looking at but haven’t sold and they haven’t responded to yet. I think they’re done. Of course, if I don’t get a good response, I’ll go back and work on them more.

I’ve got three things that I’m also revising that editors haven’t offered on. But they’ve said, Hey, if you make these tweaks, I’d like to see it again. So, I’ve got to go back and revise. I’ve also got three or four ideas of new stuff that I want to write. Altogether, that’s probably like nine or ten things in total floating around.

RVC: When you first started off, were you using an agent? 

PZM: I sold Sophie’s Squash without an agent, unsolicited through the slush pile, which obviously limited the number of places I could send it. I think I sold it on maybe one of the very last places that I could have sent it to!

RVC: That’s yet another argument for sticking with a project you believe in.

PZM: After I sold Sophie’s Squash, I did get an agent. An aspiring writer friend of mine–Jessica Vitalis, who now has a great middle grade out–said, “You really have to try to get an agent.” She pushed me, so that’s what I did. It was the best advice I could have gotten because having an agent makes my publishing life so much easier.

RVC: Let’s talk about the making of Sophie’s Squash.

PZM: I wrote an early draft of it, then I worked it through my critique group. I even paid for a couple of professional critiques. One of the women doing a paid critique, Jill Esbaum, said–and I think these were her exact words–“This is gold!” But then she basically told me I needed to redo the plot and have a better ending. So, I rewrote it, and started sending it out. I got a lot of rejections. I got a lot of close calls, too, with little notes saying, “This is cute, but not for us.” It made it to acquisitions twice but didn’t get picked up.

I had different versions of it. I had one version that was a little more happy, and I had one version that was a little more sad. When it finally sold, I didn’t remember which version I had sent to that particular editor.

RVC: Hah! I’ve been there.

PZM: That story alone probably got 15 to 20 rejections before it sold. I got 126 rejections overall on everything I was sending out before I sold my first story, but Sophie’s Squash got 15 or 20.

RVC: Wow, thanks for sharing that. I worry early-​career writers get upset and feel like quitting when they hit double-​digit rejections. Since you’re being so open and honest, I’m going to ask a hard question. Here it comes–are you still getting rejected these days?

PZM: Oh, all the time. Just last week, I got probably four rejections because I’ve got stuff out on sub[mission]. The rejections are usually nicer. My agent will send me what the editor said, which is something like I’m a good writer but that they didn’t connect with it or they didn’t love it or they couldn’t see a vision of it.

I’ve always been good about rejections. I mean, they’re no fun, but they’ve never totally messed me up or made me question my place in the world. They’re just part of the process. I think that’s a good way to look at it. They’re just part of the road you go down until you find somebody who loves your story as much as you do.

RVC: But even if an agent or editor loves your story, they’re still going to want changes.

PZM: I think that when people get into publishing, a lot of them don’t realize how much they’re going to have to revise even after an editor buys the story and loves it. You still spend a ton of time revising. You’ve got to be okay with it. You can’t say, “How DARE they question this beautiful, perfect thing that I wrote!” There are so many different ways you can tell the story effectively.

RVC: What about those who think that revising a story makes it less theirs? I hear that worry/​complaint a lot.

PZM: That’s wrong because you’re the one revising it. You’re wondering, thinking, choosing how to change it. It’s still YOUR story.

RVC: Which of your books had the most rigorous revision process?

PZM: In Our Garden. I revised it 24 times.

RVC: How many of those happened after you signed a contract?

PZM: The editor who pulled Sophie’s Squash from the slush pile, Stephanie Pitts, asked me if I’d write a book about a school rooftop garden. I said, “Sure!” and I wrote a draft. All 24 revisions were for Stephanie. Without a contract.

I was to the point where I was quietly and politely saying to myself, “Come ON!” But I knew since she had asked me for it that the odds were good that if I could come up with the version that we both liked that she’d take it. And, I love how it turned out. It’s beautiful.

RVC: In looking at what critics and regular readers say about your books, they often talk about heart. What is that, and perhaps more important, how does a writer create it?

PZM: Heart is one of the most important things a picture book can have. To me, heart is this universal emotion such that anybody–whether they’re 4 or 94–can read a book and say, “Oh, I felt that way!” Something in the book resonates with them and reminds them of the common humanity they share with everyone else. Happiness, sadness, hope, nostalgia–it’s some intense universal emotion.

The way I think about adding it is asking, “What do I want the reader to take away from this book that I’m writing?” Because you can have beautiful language, and it can read out loud gorgeously, but it has to make you feel something. You want the reader to close the book and have something linger with them, so they want to go back and read it again. That’s the heart.

Then I ask, “What are the biggest emotions I remember from being a kid?” Not necessarily what led to those emotions, but what ARE the emotions? And I think about how I might channel some of that into what I’m writing. Sometimes you only need a line or two. It doesn’t have to be dripping with whatever your emotion is–you can get a lot of emotion out of the right line being in just the right place.

RVC: It’s getting the right line in the right place that makes a book a hit. And speaking of hits…what was it like the first time that you realized you were a New York Times bestselling author?

PZM: This is one of my favorite stories. It was 2018, and I was in my 50s. I’d just found out that I needed to have my tonsils out. Getting your tonsils out at any age isn’t fun, but when you’re an adult, it’s worse. Be Kind had come out in February and this was now August. The day after I had my tonsils out, I was at home in bed, feeling like I was going to die.

My phone buzzed. It was my agent. She KNEW that I was having this done. I was thinking Why is she calling me? Still, I pushed the button. She said, “Don’t talk. Don’t say anything. But I have to tell you that Be Kind made the New York Times bestseller list.” So, I did what any logical person would do. I screamed. Major pain! I was still on massive narcotic medicine so the whole situation didn’t make a lot of sense.

I hung up. Later, it got announced, and all of a sudden, my phone is vibrating off the table because people are texting me, calling me, and tagging me on social media. I felt so good emotionally and so bad physically. I finally handed the phone to my husband and said, “This is making me feel worse.” It was just this weird balance of life.

RVC: Great story. Now, you didn’t up and quit your day job right after that. 

PZM: No. That was in 2018, and I quit my job for good and became a full-​time writer in 2021.

RVC: I’m not sure most would wait three years.

PZM: Some people are very fortunate. Maybe they have a spouse or a partner or someone who has regular, consistent, predictable income–enough where they could deal with the ups and downs of publishing money, which is never predictable. I provided more than half of our family income, so I couldn’t just quit.

My husband and I started meeting with a financial planner, especially after I got the first couple of royalty checks after hitting the New York Times list which were bigger than I ever thought they could be. I kept thinking, “It’s not going to last forever.” With the financial planner, we did a whole budget. What were we spending now? What were we thinking we’d spend in the future once both our kids weren’t living at home? What were our goals for retirement? What did we already have?

We spent over a year talking to them and finally they entered it all into this computer program. And they said, “You could leave your job now.” I wanted to do it, but I waited a couple more months–until June–just because I wanted to get everything dotted and crossed. When I left my job, I knew exactly how much money I needed to bring in each year to meet my expenses. I also had a plan. If royalties brought in that much, then awesome! If they didn’t, I was going to make up the difference through speaking engagements, school visits, or whatever. I had a plan, which made me feel better about my decision.

RVC: You’ve mentioned this before–you’ve got five books coming out this year. How do you handle promoting so many?

PZM: Right now, one just came out recently–Not So Small, my social justice, activism, protest picture book. So, I’m talking about that one. But then I’ve got two coming out in June, so I’m starting to talk about them. It’s been hard balancing five, because I think five is too many. I know that sounds like a “Poor me!” kind of thing, but it’s hard to do.

Normally, I would have one or two [books come out in a year] and I’d really focus on them. Now, I always feel like I’m either over-​promoting and annoying people or I’m not giving each book its own particular due.

RVC: When I interview productive authors, they often face the same challenge.

PZM: Can I talk about my favorite of the five?

RVC: That was my next question, so sure!

PZM: See You Someday Soon is my favorite. Suzy Lee did the art, and she put die cuts in the cover and throughout the book. The holes go all the way through the pages that have die cuts. It’s one of the most beautiful picture books I’ve ever seen. Suzy is amazing. I’m really, really proud.

This is another story where I revised the book probably eight or nine times specifically for an editor. The story ended up so much the better for it, though. It started out as a character-​driven story and it ended up being more of a lyrical poem. It’s so much better than it was, and I couldn’t have been more excited about this particular book. I actually wrote a blog post about the revision process and how everything went down.

RVC: That’s a Roaring Brook Press book? Who was your editor there?

PZM: Connie Hsu.

RVC: I interviewed her at OPB a year or so back. She was great.

PZM: I like all my editors, but Connie is especially wonderful. She helps me be the best version of myself as a writer. Before she got a job at a different house, she was the original editor for Wherever You Go, and she was the editor for Be Kind, which is a book that made the New York Times bestseller list.

RVC: Let’s talk rhyme. How do you get the words to sing off the page?

PZM: I do a ton of reading my stories out loud, you know, just sitting at my computer, staring at it, reading the words out loud. I really try to listen and think about how the words sound. I think about what they make the reader feel. And then I ask, “Are they as simple as they can be?” Because it’s for kids. Now, when I say “simple,” I don’t mean you have talk down to kids, but rather be simple and clear. The perfect word in the perfect spot. That’s what I’m going for.

It’s more of a feeling that something is working or not. I don’t know how to explain it other than that I can just feel when it’s right.

RVC: Is rhyming something that comes naturally to you?

PZM: As much as I like rhyming books–and I’m very proud of the rhyming books I’ve written–I usually try to talk myself out of rhyming because it makes the initial draft harder, and it makes revising harder. It makes everything harder because rhyme has to be perfect. I do a lot of pulling my hair out when I rhyme. But when you get it right, it’s the best feeling in the world.

I’ve never taken a prose story and said, “Oh, this ought to rhyme.” If a story comes to me initially in rhyme and I can’t talk myself out of it, then I continue. I spend a lot of time tapping out the rhythm when I write. I spend a lot of time clapping–I’m sure I’m just a joy to live with while I’m doing all of this! I’ll also go to Rhyme Zone for the perfect word to make it a line work.

RVC: And then there’s meter.

PZM: I was an English major in college which means I learned all about iambic pentameter, but I can’t look at something and say, “Oh, that’s…whatever.” I can tell whether it’s consistent and whether it works, even if I don’t know the official name for the metric structure. You have to be able to hear how the language sounds, and then has to sound like a story. You can’t twist the language to make the rhyme work. You don’t want to sound like Yoda by moving things around. It’s got to sound natural and conversational, yet also rhyme. That’s the hardest part of getting it right.

RVC: In your mind, who sets the bar for picture book rhymes?

PZM: Several people come to mind. Jill Esbaum is an amazing rhymer. There’s Lisa Wheeler and Karma Wilson. Rebecca J. Gomez is an excellent rhymer, as well. She wrote Federico and the Wolf which rhymes and has words in Spanish! Two languages, and it rhymes, and the meter is spot on.

RVC: Where do you think most picture book writers go wrong with rhyme?

PZM: One issue is that they think it has to rhyme because they grew up reading Dr. Seuss. It absolutely does not have to rhyme. They also think that if the last word in each of their sentences rhymes, that’s a rhyming book. Well, no, because you’ve got to have the meter, too. There’s got to be a rhythm that’s consistent and works. And then they try to use what I call near rhyme like “tune” and “zoom.” They both have a similar sound, but they don’t rhyme. They’re a close rhyme, but not a perfect rhyme. In picture books, you need to get it perfect.

RVC: What’s your single best secret weapon tip for making rhyme work?

PZM: You’ve got to get the meter right. And you’ve got to be able to count it out. Like I said, the tapping and clapping helps me. But when I’m really stuck, I’ll go through and highlight the stressed syllables. That helps me see the pattern I’ve got going and where I’m going wrong. It’s a very visual way of looking at your manuscript.

RVC: Great idea.

PZM: If you’re just massively struggling, try writing it in prose. In fact, a lot of times when I do critiques for people, I’ll say, “Have you tried writing this in prose?” At least give it a shot. A rhyming story has to have the same quality of plot that a non-​rhyming story does. Just because it’s rhyming doesn’t mean you can skip telling a good story.

Here’s another thing. When you’ve got your stanzas, it can help to go to the side of each and [in the margins] write a single sentence saying what’s happening in the stanza. Then look at your sentences and ask, “Is this enough of a story arc? Or am I saying the same thing on consecutive stanzas and there’s no rising action and falling action?”

RVC: You’ve got a reputation for doing great school visits. Do you still do a lot of them?

PZM: Far less than I used to, partially because of the pandemic. I’m not like some authors who get the bulk of their income from them. Honestly, doing them makes me incredibly anxious. I’ve learned to manage it, and I enjoy them once I’m actually there doing them, but I prefer to write more than give school visits.

RVC: What’s your best tip for giving a great school visit?

PZM: Pre-​planning, such as working with the school and asking, “Can you send me an agenda? What are you specifically expecting from me?” Sometimes I’d show up as we’d agreed and I find out they scheduled three extra presentations they hadn’t told me about.

Once I’m there with the kids, they’re excited, and I’m happy to be with them. That takes you a long way because kids are fun. If you can meet them where they are and show them that you’re excited to be there, it goes well.

RVC: I just saw you a few weeks back at the FL SCBWI conference. What’s it like being faculty at events like that?

PZM: It’s one of my favorite things to do. I love talking to aspiring writers. I love listening to where they are in their journey and telling them my own journey and hoping some of it applies. I love talking about the craft of writing–getting into the nuts and bolts of what makes a good picture book. And, I love giving keynotes. For some reason, they don’t make me nervous.

Speaking at SCBWI events is sort of a dream come true, because I started my career by going to an SCBWI conference and feeling worried and out of place. Now to be a keynote speaker at them? It’s a huge step up. It makes me happy, like I’ve come full circle and achieved some of the goals that I wanted. I remember looking at some of those keynote speakers early on and thinking they were just amazing.

When I was in Florida at the event where we met, a woman came up to me in the lobby. “Oh my God, it’s PAT!” I was laughing because I’m just me, but she was excited to meet me. That was pretty cool.

RVC: More often than not, when you’re brought to one of these events, it’s to be one of the Big Deals there. Care to share a time where you went to an event and totally fangirled over someone else?

PZM: Marla Frazee. Oh my God, MARLA! Crazy! I got to sign next to her at a book signing event. I almost couldn’t breathe because I love everything she does. She’s super funny.

RVC: OPB did an interview with Marla in early 2021–check out that interview right here!

PZM: I’ve also been really excited to meet editors for the first time, like when I realized, “Wow, that’s Allyn Johnson [of Beach Lane].” I was also thrilled when I got to meet Rajani LaRocca at the Florida SCBWI conference. We’ve gone back and forth on social media a few times, and we’ve been on a virtual panel together, but I’ve never met her in person. She was amazing.

RVC: Here’s a strange question. How do you say your name? Is “Zietlow” a middle name?

PZM: It’s pronounced ZEET-​low. That was my maiden name. I kept it when I started writing picture books, because there were a lot of other Pat Millers. I thought about hyphenating it, but it’s not really my legal name. I figured I’d keep it as two separate names. Plus, my parents were always so supportive of my writing career that I wanted to acknowledge them. Having that name on my books does that.

RVC: Do people ever ask you that name question? I hope so, because that’s a lovely little story there.

PZM: I don’t normally get asked about it. Growing up, kids tease each other about anything they can get their hands on, and I got teased about my last name. They took Zietlow and they turned it into “meatloaf” or other weird words. So, I didn’t always love Zietlow. But now that I look at it, I think it’s a great name.

RVC: Agree completely! Now, in all your experience in the world of kidlit, what has surprised you the most?

PZM: How long everything takes. Getting books out into the world is such a long process. It’s worth it, but nothing moves quickly.

The other surprise is going to sound hokey, but kidlit people are super nice. The entire kidlit community. They support and encourage each other. They promote their books and promote other people’s books. It’s just a nice group of people, which is another part of the reason I like going to conferences so much.

RVC: Brag time. What are you excited about?

PZM: On my YouTube channel, I’ve put out one of my favorite webinars for free. It’s sort of my gift to the kidlit world.

RVC: What’s it about?

PZM: One of the things I’m most passionate about with picture books is cutting words. A lot of times, I’ll critique people’s manuscripts and I’ll say, “You could tell this exact same story with 200 fewer words, and you wouldn’t hurt your plot at all. It would read so much better.” I’ve had many people watch this webinar, apply the ideas to the manuscript, and then reach out to me on Twitter or email to tell me their success stories.

RVC: In terms of books, is there anything you’d like to promote? 

PZM: See You Someday Soon is the book of my heart, and it’s beautiful. It’s got starred reviews from Kirkus and Horn Book already, which makes me really happy. It’s all about how do you love someone far away? And how do you stay connected to someone when they’re far away? I wrote it well before the pandemic was even on anyone’s radar, but it’s such an appropriate book after what’s been going on. Suzy Lee’s creativity with the die cuts and the partial pages elevates the entire book, too.

TRV: Okay, Pat. It’s time for the SPEED ROUND. Fast questions and even faster answers. Are you ready?

PZM: Sure. Hit me!

RVC: What’s the funniest word in the English language?

PZM: Bassoon.

RVC: What always cheers you up when you think about it?

PZM: My cats.

RVC: Pick a theme song to describe where you are in your life right now.

PZM: “Hammer and a Nail” by the Indigo Girls.

RVC: Which picture book author would you want to write your life story?

PZM: Julie Fogliano.

RVC: The last great picture book that you read.

PZM: Big and Small and In-​Between by Carter Higgins and Daniel Miyares.

RVC: What’s your favorite comment from a kid about you or your books?

PZM: I went back to the elementary school I graduated from and did a presentation there. They were obviously really happy to see me, and they made a big deal out of it. When I was done, this little boy with a mohawk–a tiny little kid with a big mohawk–ran up, threw his arms around me, and yelled, “I hugged the famous person!” and then ran off before I could even respond.

RVC: Thanks so much, Pat–this was great! Leave it to two Wisconsin folks to make the magic happen. 🙂

Author Interview: Kaitlyn Wells

On By Only Picture BooksIn Author Interviews

This month’s picture book author is yet another journalist—we’ve got quite a surprising streak going here! Welcome to Kaitlyn Wells, an award-​winning journalist whose work has been featured in The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal, and The Washington Post, among others. Since she’s an expert on diverse literature, you can readily find her writing about that at The New York Times Book Review, BookPage, and Diverse Kids Books.

She’s not here for those things, impressive as they are. She’s here because her debut picture book, A Family Looks Like Love, arrives on May 31, 2022. We’ll talk about that in a moment for sure.

Kaitlyn lives in New York City with her “wonderful husband, rambunctious dog, and demanding cat.” She’s also active on social media, so let me share those links before getting to the interview. Lastly, she’s got a great newsletter for people who want to explore how Black, Indigenous, and womxn of color navigate the world.

RVC: In terms of your work as a journalist, you mention service journalism as an area of interest/​focus. What does that mean to you?

KW: Being a service journalist is putting the reader first. I’m here to answer questions that people have about products or services. It’s teaching them how they can do things better or make their lives easier. That’s why I really like working in that type of medium–I get to help people better understand what’s going on in the world around them, and ultimately help them make better decisions for themselves and for their families.

RVC: Where did the interest in journalism come from?

KW: I’ve always been interested in journalism. I’ve always loved writing. I was that kid in grade school who was on the student newspaper, yearbook club, and all that. So, my trajectory was pretty normal. I got into nonprofit work for a little bit but I really wanted to get back into journalism as an adult. That’s why I pursued a graduate degree at Columbia University. I figured that was the right next step for someone like me who wanted to move to New York and try to make it in East Coast media.

RVC: How did it go for you there?

KW: Columbia was definitely not a cakewalk. It was a challenge. The curriculum was really rigorous. And I loved it. It was a fantastic learning experience. I made a lot of great connections, and it really helped me push my skill set further. I think that’s something that’s helped me be successful in my career. But I will admit grad school isn’t for everyone and it’s incredibly cost prohibitive. So, think it through carefully before you commit to a program.

RVC: What’s one of the most important things that you learned in that master’s program?

KW: Tough question. Probably the most important thing would be to believe in yourself. You’re surrounded by a lot of other people in your program who are just as talented as you, if not more so, and some of them have had access to more resources than you. And that’s okay. The competition can get quite fierce. So, it’s really important to trust yourself, do good work, and hopefully change the world for the better.

RVC: It’s impossible to look at your website without understanding that you have a profound interest in pets.

KW: I’ve always loved pets growing up. I’ve always had pets. I’ve been working with animal shelters since I was in high school. So, when a job opened up working at The New York Times’ Wirecutter as a pets writer, I jumped at the opportunity. They believed I had the right mix of experience and passion to do the job, so I’ve been working in service journalism at the intersection of technology and pets for the last several years. That led to the development of my first book that’s coming out as well.

RVC: We’ll talk about that book at length in just a moment. First, I’m curious about some of the talks you regularly give, such as the one on how to help writers emotionally connect with readers.

KW: It’s extremely valuable to learn how to get to the heart of what you want to say in your story, when you’re trying to make that emotional connection with the reader and with your character. Something I like to implement is called the heart mapping method, where you take a sheet of paper, draw a big heart in the center, and spend 15 to 30 minutes reflecting on what it was like growing up. I like to do this with every new manuscript–with it, I can really hone in on the theme of my story.

If you don’t know where to start, you can just do basic childhood memories.

  • Who were you at your core?
  • What was at the center of your heart?
  • What did you value the most as a kid?
  • What things did you like as a child?
  • What experiences will you never forget?
  • What happy or sad memories do you have?

But it’s more than that–it’s getting really specific, nailing down people, places, and memories, and then getting as detailed as you can. Once you have those details, those little nuggets of information can be threaded throughout your manuscript to breathe life into the characters that you’re trying to portray on the page. It can take a lot of work to do heart mapping the right way. Digging into your memories can be emotional. It can be draining or even traumatic for some people. But I think the more that you work at it, the better you get a sense of how you want a story to progress.

RVC: Is this something that you developed in or used in your journalist work? Or is it something that is particular to the world of kid literature?

KW: There are definitely some influences when it comes to journalism, particularly when you’re writing profiles, for example, because you want to be able to get across the people–or the places–that you’re writing about. It’s learning to use every descriptive tool in your toolkit. Some of that transfers into learning how to be a strong writer for kidlit as well, especially when you’re talking about emotions. Since journalism isn’t straight creative writing, I get to do more of that now with picture books.

RVC: You made a serious commitment toward the world of journalism and found a lot of success there. When did you decide to start to branch out into the role of kid literature?

KW: It wasn’t until a few years ago that I got serious about exploring kidlit. Like a lot of kidlit writers, I’ve always liked writing down ideas and telling stories to myself and others. But there came a time where I decided I’m still not seeing books out there that are really representative of the world that I live in. Or portraying people who look like me as well. So, I thought, Okay, I’ve got a story to tell. I would love to be able to tell it. Ultimately, I decided it’s time to commit. It really helped myself grow creatively in a way that traditional journalism hasn’t allowed me to yet.

RVC: I get the sense that A Family Looks Like Love comes from a place deep within you. What’s the story behind this story?

KW: It’s a picture book about a dog who looks different from her doggy siblings. She looks different from the other animals in the neighborhood, too. These other animals tell her that they’re not really her family because they don’t match. She begins to internalize those feelings a lot and tries to change the way that she looks.

For me, that’s very personal because that’s some of what I went through growing up. My mom is white and my dad is Black, and I’m biracial. I spent most of my life surrounded by people who told me “That can’t possibly be your mom!” or “That’s not your dad! He’s nothing like you.” I’ve also been told by my extended family that I don’t belong just because of my skin color.

RVC: Wow.

KW: In processing those emotions, I found it was a tad easier to channel those experiences through the eyes of a dog. The inspiration for the book is my own dog, who actually doesn’t look like her real-​life dog parents either. She’s a tricolor pup while her siblings in real life are blond, scruffy haired dogs. She’s also a dog that just loves everybody around her–she’s never met a stranger in her life.

It was easier for me to tell this story from the perspective of my dog going through a similar experience because as I said before, mining your heart, your emotional center, can be draining. It can bring up a lot of things that you don’t want to relive. So, that made it more accessible in my eyes. I think it also makes it more accessible for families who are still grappling with colorism or white supremacy, and they aren’t sure how to discuss race and might be turned off by the idea of reading it from a human perspective.

RVC: It strikes me that editing and revising a heart book like that is probably more challenging than with other books. One of the presentations you give is on self-​editing, right? Did you have a hard time following your own advice?

KW: There were challenges editing this piece, especially when it came to revision before it went on submission because I wanted to tell the story in a respectful way. It was also one of the first manuscripts I worked on. So, there was definitely a huge learning curve for me. While in journalism you have to learn to write tight, clean sentences, it’s nothing compared to what you do in the kidlit community, especially for picture books because on average you only get 500 words to tell a story. And it still needs to be compelling and at the right reading level for a younger audience. That has its own set of challenges. It was great to work those muscles and figure out my stories from that perspective.

The biggest challenge with editing the book was that I had a particular way I wanted to portray certain characters. But when I got together with critique partners they would say, “Actually, I think it’d be better if you switch this character out for something else,” or “adjust that phrasing you have there,” or “I think it’s a little too harsh so let’s soften it up a bit for a younger audience.” That was a nice, albeit sometimes frustrating, learning experience for me.

RVC: What do you most appreciate or enjoy about Sawyer’s artwork?

KW: I love the joy that Sawyer brings to the story. Honestly, she did a beautiful job with the illustrations, and I’m eternally grateful. I was able to trust her with my vision, and she knocked it out of the park. There are a couple of pages in there that just really resonate with me. There’s one in particular where the main dog character, Sutton, feels really sad about herself, and she’s imagining what she would look like if she were to fit in better with her family. That just tugs on me every time I see it.

Sawyer did such a fantastic job matching the illustrations to the story and elevating it more than I could have on my own.

RVC: What was the most important lesson that you learned about picture books during the process from acceptance to almost publication?

KW:

The process is quite long. Gosh, I want to say from the time I got accepted to where I finally had my contract signed, it was at least six months. And, of course, this was during the height of the pandemic, so it was a little bit longer than what most people would expect.

Another surprising thing is that you have to be really proactive in this process to make sure all the trains are moving along, and that you’re getting the support that you need– through the editing process and leading up to publication. My book isn’t out yet, but I’m really excited to see what’s going to happen with it.

RVC: What was the most important contribution or change that happened as a result of the editorial feedback process from your publisher?

KW: Oh, that’s another tough question. There’s some dialogue between the main character and her dog family that was tweaked. Ultimately, I was able to help ensure that the main character, Sutton, takes ownership in the decisions she makes, rather than having the “adults” around her telling her what to do. I thought it was important for any young reader to see that there are decisions you can make that will ultimately be better, and you don’t always have to listen to others around you.

Prior to finding an editor and a publisher, I would say a big change that happened was the color of the dogs. In the original version, the family was mostly white to kind of mirror my own family on my mom’s side. As I got further along in the editing process, I realized that was centering whiteness more than I wanted it to. We were able to kind of revamp that a bit and change them to the yellow/​blond coats instead.

RVC: As part of your process, it sounds as if you partnered with other people to promote each other and support each other. Do you want to talk a little bit about your group?

KW: I’m actually in several support groups. I think that’s something that every writer needs to get involved in. It’s amazing what you can do with like-​minded people who all ultimately have the same goal.

RVC: But you’re specifically in a debut group, too. [Spoiler: Ryan’s in the same group, so he knows the answer to this one!]

KW: With you and a few dozen others, yes, I’m in PB22Peekaboo. With a debut group like this, you match up with anybody who has a book coming out in the same year as you and you basically act as a support network. You review each other’s titles, promo one another’s work on social media, work on panels together and speak at book fairs, and sometimes workshop new manuscripts, too. It really runs the gambit.

I really like the group that I’m in now.

RVC: So do I!

KW: I’ve been in a couple of other supportive groups that are more affinity oriented. Those are the ones that really helped me get my start in the kidlit community until I found my footing. I’m forever grateful for those as well.

RVC: Brag time. What do you have coming out next?

KW: I have something new happening in the world of kidlit. I can’t announce it yet but I’m really excited for what’s in the works. It’s going to be a STEM-​oriented biography.

In the world of service journalism, I constantly have pieces running every week. You can always find that information here. I also have a newsletter that occasionally goes out that might have some of those updates.

RVC: What advice do you have for aspiring kidlit writers?

KW:

It’s important to remember–especially for anybody looking to break into kidlit–to always trust yourself. NEVER doubt yourself. I ran into this a lot on submission because my book was one of the #ownvoices stories. There were a lot of editors and publishers that my story didn’t resonate with. I took that personally, because it felt like I was putting something really vulnerable on the page, and people were telling me that there’s no place for it in the world.

I want everybody to know there is a place for your story. There is a place for representation–you just have to push through it and keep going. If anybody is actively trying to keep you out of this space, especially if they’re trying to stop or ban you, there are ways that you can combat that by reporting into national agencies, seeking news coverage on banned books, and of course, running for local office or for school boards to ensure literature is protected in our school systems.

RVC: Here’s the last question for this part of the interview. You’ve got a clear commitment to diversity. In fact, one of your presentations is on how to ensure diversity in journalism. How does that translate into the world of kidlit? 

KW: It definitely starts with the industry itself, which means hiring more Black, Indigenous and people of color in the publishing industry, and actually buying books by BIPOC creators who feature stories about BIPOC characters as well, which isn’t always the case. If you look at the research, there tend to be less stories about us by us. So, that’s something that we have to really work on for telling our own stories from a diverse lens. I think it’s best to do it authentically and to tell stories that you know. And also read work by other people around you who have different experiences from your own so you can open your mind to something new. It can really help you creatively to get a better understanding of what works and what doesn’t, and see if there’s a place for the story that you want to tell on the shelves.

RVC: Thanks for that. But now it’s time for the SPEED ROUND. Silly fast answers followed by zoomy answers, please. Are you ready?

KW: Sure?

RVC: If you could only have one app on your phone, it would be…

KW: A calendar app.

RVC: If animals could talk which animal would have the most interesting things to say?

KW: Sharks.

RVC: What outdated slang do you use on a regular basis?

KW: Cool.

RVC: What animal do you think should be renamed?

KW: The platypus, but I don’t know what the new name should be.

RVC: Five things you can’t do your work without.

KW: Pen. Paper. Highlighter. A couple of reference texts that I like to use. And sunlight.

RVC: Some Kaitlyn wisdom in seven words or less.

KW: I’m not unique, but we’re ALL special.

RVC: Thanks so much, Kaitlyn! This was a real treat.

Author Interview: Elisa Boxer

On By Only Picture BooksIn Author Interviews

Our April Author Interview is with Elisa Boxer, a Maine-​based writer and Emmy-​winning journalist. You might’ve seen her writing at The New York Times, Fast Company, and as part of the Today Show parenting blogging team, or you might’ve seen her as a former ABC news anchor. In the past few years, though, she’s gone from having a lifelong passion for reading children’s books to combining that passion with her storytelling skills and commitment to uncovering and sharing vital truths to write her own children’s books. Helping her manage this new kidlit writing career is literary agent Steven Chudney (see the OPB interview with him right here!).

As Elisa shares on her website: “seeing my own words unfold onto the page (I write everything out longhand first) helps bring into focus how journalism, teaching, mothering, mindfulness, advocacy, and writing are inextricably and cosmically intertwined for me.” That sounds like the recipe for something really good.

Let’s get right to that interview and learn more about how all these things play into Elisa’s life and career!

Elisa’s Twitter

Elisa’s Instagram

Elisa’s Website

RVC: With most author interviews, I try to sleuth out that kernel of a moment that sparked a kidlit writing career. With you, however, I feel like I might need to go after that journalist AHA moment first. So, let me ask it this way—as a kid, what was your relationship to reading and writing?

EB: My kidlit writing career actually preceded my journalism career. But it’s understandable that this would have flown under your sleuthing radar, as it was the early 70s and The Kitten & the Puppy and Other Things had a relatively small print run.

Although as you can see, it did win a Coldicot (sic).

RVC: Absolutely glorious. Thanks for sharing!

But since my exhaustive sleuthing didn’t turn that up, I’m now doubting all of my “facts,” yet I THINK you studied journalism at Columbia. What were a few of the best writing lessons you learned there that helped in your subsequent career as a journalist?

EB: The best lessons I learned there were about jumping straight to the source for information. I didn’t have much of a choice, since those were pre-​internet days where you couldn’t just look stuff up. But I was taking subways to Harlem and the Bronx at all hours, and hunting down interviews and stories and sources first-​hand. Before that, I had been a crime reporter in Lowell, Massachusetts, a community where there was no shortage of crime. I was doing stories on girl gangs and drug rings. So, during the course of my time at the Lowell Sun and Columbia, I really got comfortable with pounding the pavement and gathering information the old-​fashioned way. That was the only way to do it back then. This is all to say that I’m old.

RVC: What did you find most rewarding about old-​fashioned journalism work?

EB: Telling the stories of people whose voices might otherwise go unheard… Whether it was a kid organizing a bake sale for his sick teacher, a lawmaker apologizing on behalf of the state for abuse that happened decades earlier at a state-​run institution, or a domestic abuse survivor starting a shelter, I’ve always been drawn to shining a light on the unsung heroes.

RVC: That’s such a lovely way to explain journalism that’s done well. What motivated you to take the leap into the big ocean of children’s books? 

EB: I rediscovered my love for children’s books when my son was born, eighteen years ago. Soon after that, I left full-​time journalism, transitioning to part-​time magazine writing and teaching newspaper reporting at the University of Southern Maine. In between classes and assignments, I drafted children’s book manuscripts. During those years, I attended several SCBWI conferences, and always left feeling invigorated and inspired. I never knew if I’d ever be published, but I knew I loved creating stories for kids.

RVC: I’ve left more than a few SCBWI conferences feeling the same way. What was the story behind the story of your first picture book, The Voice that Won the Vote?

EB: It was 2017 and I had another social-​justice related book out on submission. That one still hasn’t sold!

RVC: It happens to the best of us!

EB: Anyway, my agent, Steven Chudney, alerted me to the fact that the 100th anniversary of the 19th Amendment (which gave women the right to vote) was coming up in 2020. Being drawn to unsung heroes, I did an internet search for little-​known women in the suffrage movement. When kids who are trying to come up with topics ask how I found this story, I always tell them to do internet searches for unsung heroes in whatever area they’re interested in. Because I literally typed into Google “little-​known women in the suffrage movement.”

When I came across the story of Febb Burn, the mom who helped save suffrage, I felt that tug in my solar plexus to find out more. I went digging further, but couldn’t find any books about her, for adults or children. That really surprised me. She was such an inspirational figure and such a perfect representation of the idea that every voice matters. That’s when I knew I wanted to make her the subject of a picture book.

RVC: If you’re anything like the long-​form journalists I know, you dive into research like a penguin goes for water. Given the page constraints of picture books, how did you grapple with shaping the story and choosing what went in and what didn’t?

EB: So true about the research and narrowing down what goes in. It’s such a challenge! With every book, I first make sure there’s an emotional resonance that’s relatable for kids–a universal theme that would make a great takeaway. In this case, the theme of every voice matters hooked me. I want every child to know how much their voice matters, so I looked for scenes from Febb’s life and from that time in history that either highlighted that theme, or challenged it. From there, I built a story arc, and if a scene didn’t contribute to that main idea, alas, I had to cut it.

RVC: I have to ask—what’s your favorite Febb fact that didn’t make it into the book?

EB: After writing the letter that resulted in her son casting the tie-​breaking vote for nationwide women’s suffrage, Febb became the first woman in Tennessee history to register to vote. Here’s her registration card!

RVC: WOW!

EB: Notice it says “his” registration. These cards were designed for men. I geek out over these historical documents.

RVC: What are some of the key differences between reporting a story and picture-​booking a story?

EB: They seem so different, right? But there are many similarities–I’d say more similarities than differences. At least for nonfiction. Both involve choosing a topic, coming up with a hook, conducting research and interviews, writing outlines and drafts, ditching those and writing new ones, deciding which elements contribute to the story enough to make it in the final product, and then distilling those elements down to something relatable and (hopefully) interesting. So, whether it’s a newspaper article, a magazine story, a TV report, or a picture book, the information gathering and storytelling process is very similar.

I’d say the biggest difference is the timeline and turnaround time. Since daily journalism has much tighter deadlines, the process is sped up exponentially.

RVC: Aha. Makes sense! Care to give a specific example?

EB: In One Turtle’s Last Straw, for example, which comes out next month, I saw a viral video of marine biologists rescuing a sea turtle who’d gotten a straw stuck in his nasal passage and could barely breathe. I did some background research, and then interviewed the marine biologist who made the video. She happened to mention that this whole ordeal was likely the result of someone who had unwittingly tossed a straw in the garbage without giving it a second thought. I knew in that moment that’s how I wanted to begin the book, with a child casually tossing a straw in the trash. Same thing with journalism in terms of researching and reporting facts, details and quotes, and determining how to approach the story in a way that will resonate with readers/​viewers.

RVC: How does the editorial profess differ between journalism and picture books?

EB: Long-​form journalism is fairly similar to picture books editorially, at least in the initial stages, in that you choose a topic, gather information, craft the story, and refine it. With books, you’re dependent on an editor/​publisher to buy the text, whereas in journalism, you’re already hired! The whole part about no rejections is a plus. From there, with books as well as long-​form journalism, there’s input and some back-​and-​forth with the editor. In daily journalism with the tighter deadlines and turnarounds, there’s less time for editorial input. Picture books remind me a lot of the days when I used to do packaged reports for television, in that the illustrator/​videographer brings depth and feeling to the product in a way that the words alone never could. I have been so fortunate to work with incredibly talented photographers, videographers, and illustrators, and I am in constant awe of their ability to bring my words to life in a way that’s so much richer than I could have imagined.

RVC: At what point did you fully realize you were making a kidlit career and that you weren’t a one-​and-​done author?

EB: I’m still pinching myself, honestly. I think it was while we were waiting for The Voice that Won the Vote to come out, when I sold two books to Emily Easton at Crown/​Random House, and then two books to Howard Reeves at Abrams, that I realized I could conceivably have this career that had been in my heart ever since The Kitten & the Puppy.

RVC: If you had to summarize the most important thing you’ve learned about writing nonfiction picture books, what would it be?

EB: Write the stories you care about, rather than the stories you think will sell. So much in this business is uncertain and counterintuitive. But if you stick with what calls to you, only good can come of that.

RVC: Let’s talk Nancy Pelosi. How did A Seat at the Table: The Nancy Pelosi Story come about?

EB: My agent gets the credit for this one, too! By the way, I’m loving that stick figure you drew for your interview with him.

RVC: Aw, shucks. I’ll have to start bragging to my illustrator colleagues at Ringling College about my near-​criminally underappreciated mad art skills. Thanks for noticing! (To see that AWESOME art, check out Steven’s OPB interview right here). Back to you and the Pelosi book, Elisa!

EB: I had just finished writing The Voice that Won the Vote, and Steven and I were chatting about other barrier-​breaking potential subjects. He suggested Nancy Pelosi. When I began researching her background and found out more about her childhood, I knew she’d make the perfect subject for a picture book.

RVC: What’s a common misconception about Nancy Pelosi?

EB: That she always had political aspirations. She actually grew up believing that women were supposed to stay out of the political spotlight, and that their role in politics was purely to help men get elected. She watched her mother do that. It wasn’t until a dear dying friend personally asked her to fill her Congressional seat that Nancy Pelosi actually considered running for office herself. And even then, she was hesitant.

RVC: In terms of your writing, what did you handle better in this book than in your first?

EB: That’s such an interesting question, because I’ve been thinking a lot lately about the element of this business where you pour your heart into a manuscript, sell it (hopefully), and then it’s another 2–3 years before it’s published as a book. And we’re ever evolving, right? I mean, I’m not the same person I was last week, let alone three years ago.

I feel like I am constantly aligning better with who I really am, and shedding old versions of me that maybe did things based on “shoulds” or expectations. And so with the books I have coming out this year, there are things I would have done differently had I started writing them now. I mean, I am super proud of them, but there’s phrasing I would have changed here and there, or a different approach I would have taken with this scene or that. So, to answer your question, I think each book represents the best of who we are at that point.

RVC: Along the way, you teamed up with a picture book PR group—the Soaring 20s.

EB: It’s such an amazing bunch of creators and remains one of the best kidlit decisions I have made! Writing can be such a solitary experience, and I was looking for a community of creators to not only help promote each other’s work, but to share insights about the business. What I hadn’t counted on was getting a close-​knit group of great friends.

RVC: Could you talk a bit more about that group and what they’re/​you’re all doing?

EB: It’s been extraordinary. Especially since we’ve been able to support each other through the ins and outs of publishing in a pandemic. For many of us, our debuts released just as the pandemic was beginning. My first book released March 15, 2020, which was the week that everything shut down. Several of us had our launch events and school visits cancelled, and together we were able to share insights on how to move forward virtually. When 2020 was over, we weren’t ready to say goodbye! Plus, many of us had new book deals. So, we decided to stick together for at least the next decade. 😀

RVC: From looking at your website and LinkedIn page, you sound terrifically busy. What do you do to de-stress?

EB: There’s a way to do that?

RVC: Who or what has most influenced your kidlit career?

EB: Definitely my son, Evan. He’s an everyday reminder to keep tapping into my heart, which is where all of my stories come from. Even the more academic stories. If I can’t write them with heart, I can’t write them.

RVC: One final question for this part of the interview because it’s brag time. What’s next for you in the world of kidlit? Are we going to see a fiction picture book?

EB: I do have a couple of fiction picture books in progress! One involves humor. I’m a bit stuck on it–I need to get funnier. I’m also writing a chapter book series and a middle grade novel. But on the more immediate horizon are several more nonfiction picture books: One Turtle’s Last Straw (Crown/​Random House) coming next month, SPLASH! (Sleeping Bear Press) coming in July, Covered in Color (Abrams) in August, Hope in a Hollow (Abrams) in 2023 Tree of Life (Rocky Pond Books/​Penguin) in 2024, and more in 2024 that haven’t been announced yet.

RVC: Congrats on all of that. You’re going to be busy!

EB: Absolutely!

RVC: Now, Elisa, since you’re a journalist who knows about the mission-​critical importance of tight copy and fast deadlines, you’re surely as prepared as anyone to kick butt on our SPEED ROUND! Let’s prove it now. Zoomy quick questions and whizzy fast answers please. Are you prepared?

EB: No! I tend to be slow and methodical. Unless I am on deadline, then I can be zoomy and whizzy. Although actually I AM on deadline because I left these until the last minute.

So, yes, I’m ready! Fire away!

RVC: Tea, coffee, or soda?

EB: Pineapple and banana smoothie.

RVC: What inanimate object would be most annoying if it pumped out loud, upbeat music every time you used it?

EB: My son just said a toothbrush, because you hold it close to your head. He has a point, no? That would be really annoying.

RVC: What word do you always mispell misspel write wrong? 

EB: Suppress (I always want to add an “r” before the first “p”) and precede (I always want to double the middle “e”).

RVC: What books are on your nightstand?

EB: Martha Beck’s Finding Your Own North Star and a notebook for writing down dreams and story ideas in the middle of the night.

RVC: What’s a great nonfiction picture book that too few people know about?

EB: Wait, Rest, Pause: Dormancy in Nature, by Marcie Flinchum Atkins. I love this book for many reasons, including the fact that it helped me to be okay with slowing down. The book came out in 2019. I had just been diagnosed with chronic Lyme disease, after spending a couple of years with a mysterious debilitating illness. Glorious photographs and Marcie’s comforting text reveal plants and animals that stop, slow down and take deep, meaningful pauses before emerging in a new season. At the time, I was frustrated with my inability to be active. I’ve always looked to the natural world for inspiration, and this book was a profound reminder that maybe this was a period of time when my body needed to rest and build strength from within.

RVC: What are five words that describe your picture book writing philosophy?

EB: Search for the story’s soul.

RVC: Thanks so much, Elisa! Best of luck with all those new books.

EB: Thank you so much, Ryan! It was really great connecting with you!