Tag: Editor Interviews

Industry Insider Interviews: Tips, Advice, and More from 18 Editors & Agents

On By Only Picture BooksIn Agent Interviews, Editor Interviews1 Comment

Instead of having a regular one-​subject interview, I’m going to share 18 interesting, surprising, and/​or useful things said by literary agents or editor in interviews I’ve read this past year. For those of you who care about such things, none of these interviews were at OPB. But maybe down the road I’ll do some a roundup post or two that’s only from OPB, kind of an OPB Greatest Hits! Does that sound like a good idea to you?

I’ll see you back here next week for the final OPB picture book review of 2023.

Anjanette Barr, Dunham Literary

from PBS Spotlight

I always ask myself whether this is something children actually WANT to read about. If you have a great story idea, but it’s on a topic the typical 4–8‑year-old crowd doesn’t care about, then you may need to choose a different format for your book. It’s easy to forget what that age group is interested in if you aren’t spending a lot of time with them, and this is often a glaring problem in manuscripts from new picture book authors. Remember that even though we want adults to enjoy reading our books aloud, it’s always the kids that matter most.

Sheila Barry, Kids Can Press

from cynsations

The hardest part of my job is having to say “no” so many times in a day or week. We turn down far more manuscripts than we publish (we probably reject 100 manuscripts for every one we accept), and I write more rejection letters than I can count.

Many of the projects we turn down are perfectly publishable, but they just aren’t exactly right at this particular moment for Kids Can Press, and it can be hard to keep finding ways to say: “We like your work, but we don’t like it quite enough to contract.” I’m almost always impressed by the graciousness of the people I turn down. But I still don’t enjoy doing it.

Savannah Brooks, kt literary

from Literary Rambles

I’m open [to self-​published or indie authors] so long as the project they’re querying hasn’t already been published. Those I won’t take on because the project really needs to be an Indie bestseller in order for editors to consider it. Otherwise it doesn’t really matter to me unless those projects are problematic/​poorly written. My general advice is don’t try to use self-​publishing as a way to launch yourself into traditional publishing. It backfires more often than it works.

Julia Churchill, AM Heath

from Words & Pictures

Every author is different, every book is different and every campaign is different. Publishers bring expertise, creativity and investment to the marketing of a book and an author. I will look through each campaign and ask questions. If I think it looks basic, I’ll ask for more. If I think they should be using the author more, I’ll ask why they aren’t. If the author and I have any other ideas ourselves, we will bring them to the publisher and talk about how we can make them work. If I see something that has fallen flat on one campaign with another publisher, then I will share my experience and ask why that happened, and if maybe we should re-​route the budget into a different area, or if they still think it’s worthwhile. I ask questions, I make suggestions, I voice my concerns.

What I want for every author is the premium big-​budget campaign, the diamond standard, but very few get that. You can imagine marketing and PR campaigns to be on a sliding scale. Some campaigns are on the more basic end of the scale. If that’s where your author is in this moment, it’s important to know that, so you can deal with it. I can brainstorm with the author what they can do under their own steam, dovetailing with publisher’s efforts, and also ask the publisher to bring in their expertise and some budget in order to help support the author. Everyone wants the book to be successful.

Not all authors want to be in a room presenting to a hundred people, they want to sit in their shed and write – and why shouldn’t they? Some authors do — and love being on panels or at festivals – it’s about knowing the author, and building the campaign around them and the book.

Mary Cummings, Great River Literary

from PBS Spotlight

If I’m intrigued, I send insights about areas to revise. I don’t want to hear back in, like, two hours because I don’t believe the writer will have really pondered and had opportunity to decide whether the revisions seem like a direction that feels right. But I also want to hear back in some reasonable amount of time (a few months would be really long for a picture book, unless my thoughts for revision would have major impact on illustrations for an author/​illustrator).

Adria Goetz, kt literary

from Johnell Dewitt

I particularly love what I call “historical footnote” picture books, that build a story around lesser known bits from history. I’m also looking for picture books that capture ordinary or natural moments that feel like they’re magical—moments like capturing fireflies, bread dough rising, watching a bird murmuration, the Northern Lights, planting a seed and having it grow into a living plant, and so on. We’re surrounded by ordinary magic, and I want to celebrate it! I’m also particularly looking for picture books that explore something peculiar that happens in nature.

Elizabeth Harding, Curtis Brown, Ltd.

from liveabout dotcom

One interesting thing is that independent booksellers have been compelled to be so much more nimble and creative to stay competitive and so many of them have gotten really good at selling picture books and middle-​grade books.

There would sometimes be a situation when I’d hear that Barnes & Noble “passed” on an author’s book and it used to be devastating—devastating. I would have an inconsolable author and have nothing to really to be able to tell him or her. That’s become less and less the case.

Of course, it’s great if the book is at Barnes & Noble, but it doesn’t need to be there. If they pass —while it’s not ideal—between school, library, and the indies, now we’re able to say, “That’s OK. There are other ways to sell the book.”

Susan Hawk, Upstart Crow Literary

from Writer’s Digest

Keeping texts concise is key – take a look at newly published picture books to see approximately how long they are. Editors aren’t looking for a lengthy text. I often receive rhyming picture books and these can also be a tough sell. Ask yourself if your story must rhyme; sometimes it can open up possibilities if you aren’t bound to a rhyme scheme.

I also avoid texts that teach a lesson. I find that a story that’s in service of a lesson can obscure the star of the story – the characters I want to fall in love with.

Carol Hinz, Millbrook/​Carolrhoda Books

from Picture Book Builders

I regularly see picture book biography texts that are well done but just don’t completely grab me. A common problem with these is pacing. Everything in the subject’s life is given equal weight, so the highs don’t feel all that high nor do the lows feel all that low.

In expository picture books, giving each scene its own spread may still apply, but depending on the approach the author uses, the pagination may be pre-​determined by the structure of the text.

Whether a book’s text is narrative or expository, I firmly believe that a page break has to mean something. The turn of a page should reveal something interesting, different, or new. And when I’m reading picture book submissions, I am looking for a reason for readers to keep on turning the pages.

Christa Heschke, McIntosh and Otis

from Justin Colon Books

Communication is key!!! It’s so important to me that my clients feel comfortable talking to me about any concerns they have throughout the process. I am always here! Most authors will feel a range of emotions throughout the submission process and beyond. Are you feeling disheartened? Would you like to talk strategy? Do you have editors you’d like me to submit to? Are you confused about contract language or what something means? I am always open to suggestions as well. It’s a partnership! Every author is different as far as how often they want to communicate and in what way (phone, email, etc.) and how involved they want to be in particular aspects of the process. So, I always like to be as clear on those details as possible. I want everyone I work with to be happy, know that I have their back, and be comfortable talking through things with me.

It’s also important to understand what each author’s goals are career-​wise and beyond so I can do my best to meet them.

Allyn Johnston, Beech Lane Books

from Picture Book Builders

A picture book is more than anything else a piece of theater, with pictures and words unfolding together as the pages turn and turn and turn all the way to that most important and satisfying one—the final turn from pages 30–31 to page 32.

A picture book is not a static piece of double-​spaced writing on several sheets of 8½ x 11 paper. It’s also not a chunk of writing that sounds like part of a young middle-​grade novel. The text of a picture book is more like poetry than prose. It needs rhythm and succinctness and not a bunch of description and dialog. To steal from Mem, it needs “perfect words in perfect places.” And not too many of them.

If you are a writer but not an illustrator, you of course must leave room for the artist to tell the picture story. But you also must let go of the notion that it is in any way your job to control what happens in the pictures. (No art notes! None. You may think I’m joking! But I’m not.) Your job is to write the best story you can possibly write, one that is so deliciously gorgeous and unexpected and fun in the way it unfolds, and in its emotional power, that no one who reads it can get it out of their heads.

As author/​illustrator Marla Frazee has said so beautifully, “It’s the text and the art that are collaborating in a picture book.” It’s words and pictures together that make the whole. Trust each of them to tell its part.

Naomi Kirsten, Chronicle Books

from Children’s Illustrators

It depends on the project since I work on a variety of formats, from original picture books to novelty books, board books, puzzles, and games. Regardless of the project, though, I typically seek out a style that can be best described as eye-​catching, soulful, and enduring. I also gravitate toward illustration styles that resonate with readers all over the world. I’m committed to reaching all readers, regardless of geography, so an illustration style often needs to have universal appeal.

Another quality that I look for is flexibility. It’s great to see a signature approach or aesthetic in a portfolio, but knowing that an illustrator is willing to step outside of their comfort zone to meet the needs of a potential project is ideal.

Finally, what typically sets an illustrator apart for me is their visual voice: That often comes through in a strong sense of color and line. If an illustrator is comfortable working in a limited palette, I like to see variations on that sensibility. I tend to gravitate toward illustrators who have a style that appeals to children all while speaking to an adult’s sense of artfulness. Since adults are the ones buying books for kids, they are always part of the equation for me—adults are also the ones who will likely be reading the picture book again (and again) to the youngest of readers, so it’s important to have a kid-​friendly style that adults can appreciate, too.

Emma Ledbetter, Abrams

from cynsations

Three hundred and fifty words is definitely on the short end of the picture books we publish! Word counts can vary greatly depending on things like the age group they’re targeting, and whether they’re fiction or nonfiction.

But yes, in general, there has been a trend towards brevity in recent years. I see this not as brevity for brevity’s sake, but because often, a manuscript reads as “too long” because it would simply be a stronger story if it were shorter.

When I edit a picture book text, sometimes I’ll encourage an author to condense when I find that there’s excessive description; too many different plotlines going on at once; or too much information incorporated (this can be a particular issue with nonfiction).

Every word is important in a picture book, where space is precious and limited—so every story needs focus and intent.

Steven Malk, Writers House

from Publisher’s Weekly

The most exciting thing for me has always been reading a voice I’ve never read before, coming across a perspective, point of view, or experience that’s different and new. The advice I always give is just to communicate what it is that makes you unique.

And there’s the really basic stuff of just being professional. You want to come across as really serious about what you’re doing. You don’’ want to come across as someone who’s just dabbling or who doesn’t take the business particularly seriously as a potential career. It is a career. You should demonstrate that, just like with any job.

***

I love coming across a voice I haven’t read before. I love books that open windows into a wide range of experiences. Not many people know it, but I’m a huge fan of mysteries and read them in my spare time whenever I can. I’d love to find a great mystery, especially a mystery with real emotional stakes and a setting we haven’t seen before. I’ve always been a big fan of flawed or unreliable narrators as protagonists. I love music, history, and sports, so I’m always receptive to books that touch on those subjects as well.

Wendy McClure, Albert Whitman & Co

from nancychurnin.com

In terms of process, it’s [writing a picture book] sort of a cross between composing a poem and writing a short essay. For many years I did a column for BUST magazine, and my word count was around 800 words, and once I got used to that limit, it sort of changed the way I wrote those pieces: I’d know, after a couple of paragraphs, whether my pacing and structure was tight enough to work with that word count. If it wasn’t, I’d start over. I find now that I do the same thing with picture books, because working with those texts as an editor has given me a feel for that length. It’s funny, because I still believe in writing first drafts without worrying about word count, and that sometimes you need too much story at first to have enough in the end. But it’s also useful to understand the sense of scale a picture book has. It’s like figuring out what size paintbrush you need. As an editor of picture books, I’m always in that world to some extent! But it’s a little different when it’s your own manuscript. I liked letting my editor (Christina Pulles) make decisions about page breaks and jacket copy, and I was able to sit back more and watch the magic happen, which was fun.

Holly McGhee, Pippin Properties, Inc.

from Cynsations

I often find that our very most successful clients need a gatekeeper—there can come a point when there’s nobody left who will tell an author to “shelve it” or that the author “can do better.” We are the keepers of the castle, the ones you can trust to tell you the truth about the work as we see it.

Maria Modugno, Random House Studio

from Robsanders.com

If I knew the formula for making a finished book irresistible, I would be a millionaire. Even after years of experience, I find it hard to anticipate which titles will really take off. I always pause when I have the first bound book in my hands and celebrate that achievement. What the market thinks is out of our control. Nevertheless, most bookstores use the top seasonal holidays as a hook for a display. Back to school is another important season for picture books. It goes without saying, that the publisher has priced the book competitively and the trim size is right for the story, i.e. some books are “lap books” that can be spread across the laps of two readers; some illustrations call for vertical size and others for landscape.

***

The overwhelming reason that manuscripts are declined is because they just don’t have that extra spark, something that makes them irresistible. And that quality is the most difficult to define.

There are some things you can check—does the story have a distinctive voice? Does the plot work without relying on coincidence? Does it end with a surprise [such as a] birthday party? How does it sound when you read it aloud, or better yet have someone read it to you. Take care that you are not convincing yourself that it’s a good text.

***

I’m a saver of scraps. I have a jar of mismatched buttons that I keep on hand just in case. Don’t ever give your manuscript a funeral. Set it aside for a while first underlining the parts you love the best.

Something that isn’t working completely will still have a number of gems you can use somewhere else.

Brooke Vitale, freelance editor

from Brookevitale.com

So what does it mean to have a book for kids aged 3–7? It means that you need to focus on things these children can understand and can relate to. Keep in mind what a young kids’ experience with the world is and what is interesting to them. A four-​year-​old isn’t going to want to read a book about a ten-​year-​old. They can’t relate to what that character is going through and probably won’t understand the book. Young children are still learning how the world works and wont usually comprehend more complex emotional stories. That’s why most picture books tend to be simplified. A book about bullying, for example, would likely focus on a protagonist stepping up to stop the bullying, not the actual physical and emotional abuse the bullied child experiences.

But more than being something they can understand, books for kids this age need to be compelling. They need to keep a child engaged and actively hold their interest.

If you’ve ever read to a kid, you know that they have notoriously short attention spans. If you don’t have a story that keeps their attention, they’re not going to want to read your book. Find a way to engage them, and keep them engaged.

Editor Interview: Taylor Norman (Neal Porter Books/​Holiday House)

On By Only Picture BooksIn Editor Interviews8 Comments

Welcome to this month’s Industry Insider guest, Taylor Norman, a rock star in the realm of children’s literature as Executive Editor at Neal Porter Books/​Holiday House. Let’s give her a big, warm welcome!

Taylor is the editorial force behind some of the most captivating and impactful picture books you’ll find on shelves today. A connoisseur of stories that are not just enchanting but also empowering, Taylor works to bring narratives to life that kids (and adults) can’t put down.

Before her time at Neal Porter Books, Taylor honed her skills at Chronicle Books and earned her stripes as a writing tutor for 3rd–5th graders—an experience that no doubt lends itself to her keen editorial eye. In terms of academics, Taylor graduated with a major in English and a minor in French, which brings a rich texture to her understanding of storytelling.

Now that you’ve got the snapshot, let’s jump into the interview and find out what makes Taylor Norman an editorial force to be reckoned with!

RVC: On your website, you have a fabulous yearbook page with a photo and some information about you from age 13, including this goal: “I would like to be an editor of children’s books.” Where did that dream come from? 

TN: As I’m sure was true for most of you, I was an obsessive reader as a kid. I had to be told to put my books away at the dinner table. So my first job in junior high was working at our local bookstore, Copperfield’s Books in Petaluma, California, alongside my mom, Patty Norman, who was also a bookseller there and now is the children’s events manager. The children’s section at Copperfield’s is incredible—you go up a ramp to get in, and there are beanbags and nooks and crannies and a giant pillar with a huge tree painted on it. It is treated as such a special space in the store, and it affirmed my sense that the books I read, even as a kid, were important. I got blissfully stuck in the section, reading picture books and middle grade and young adult (to the detriment of my English classes). To this day, the feeling of finding the right book for the right kid—that perfect pairing—looms large in my memory. It’s my goal to make as many books as possible that can be that book, both for the bookseller to hand over, and the kid to receive—that magic book, the book the kid needs in that exact moment.

RVC: It sounds like that experience was tailor-​made for your future career.

TN: Over my years at Copperfield’s, I became convinced that the only thing I knew anything about was books for kids, and if there was a job that would pay me to read them, I wanted it. I also started to realize that, because I had read so many kids’ books, so constantly, I was pretty sure I knew what made a book truly stand out. My job at Copperfield’s taught me how to trust my instincts about books—taught me what I liked and didn’t like. It wasn’t till college at UC Berkeley, where I majored in English, that I began to learn how to articulate why a book worked or didn’t, and crucially, how to talk about why I liked something and why a given detail was valuable. College, when I read adult literature seriously for the first time, is where I learned all the mechanism behind the things I responded to innately as a younger reader. It put reason to emotion. The combination of those skills forms the foundation of my work as an editor.

RVC: At what point did you realize that dream was going to become a reality?

TN: To be honest, I never thought it wouldn’t. From age 13, I wanted to be a children’s book editor, and I made every next step about exactly that. The best confirmation came when I was a junior in college, as an editorial intern at Bloomsbury Children’s—everything about that job lit me up and made me know beyond a doubt that this was the exact job for me. You will never find a more elated intern anywhere than me in 2010. I would happily have done that job for free.

RVC: Hah. That’s a common secret we don’t want to tell our employers, right? Now, how did you land your first editing job (Editorial Assistant @ Chronicle Books)? 

TN: An internship at Chronicle Children’s opened up my last semester in college. I applied, and was delighted to find that my interviewer was Ariel Richardson, who had worked at Copperfield’s briefly some years prior. I got the internship, and about a month later, Chronicle hired a new publishing director for the Children’s group, Ginee Seo. That entailed hiring a permanent editorial assistant, so I applied as quickly as I could. Ginee and I clicked immediately, and shared so many of the same values about the books we loved and the books we thought were important, and thank goodness, she hired me.

RVC: What were the best lessons that job taught you? 

TN: That’s hard to answer. I was at Chronicle for 11 years, so I learned just about every lesson I’ve ever learned in my life from that job. I guess the best lesson is: to value your relationships above all else. My colleagues and authors and illustrators and agents—I take these relationships so seriously and spend some of the best energy of my life tending to them. Being an editor is more like being a therapist than anything else—you are the caretaker of many peoples’ most important efforts and most fervent dreams, the manager of those efforts and dreams, and their champion. Understanding those stakes is imperative.

RVC: Let’s talk about those stakes via a book–what’s the story behind the first picture book you ever edited?

TN: When you first open to acquisitions, you read a lot of books, hundreds, that are publishable. You keep thinking, Is this the one? Is this good enough? If I pass on this, am I wrong? But then you read something that echoes across your whole life and inside your whole self, and you realize: This is the kind of book I want to edit. That’s how I felt when I read Carter Higgins’ Everything You Need for a Treehouse.

RVC: What’s the most important thing that experience taught you?

TN: That book was the first of so many I’d do with Carter, and that relationship—both professional and personal—is one of the major joys of my life. What I knew from the second I read that manuscript was that the person who wrote it had not just a book I wanted to publish, but a mind I wanted to publish. I wanted every thought she had to be synthesized into picture book form. (We are doing a pretty good job on this so far!)

And that’s really what I’m looking for when I’m reading submissions—the book, of course, needs to be precisely aligned with my ability to make it its best self, but I am more importantly reading for the person making it, hoping to find another person who will bring countless singular stories into kids’ hands and minds. When I acquire a book, I’m really hoping to “acquire” the relationship—my hope is always that it extends far further into the future than just a single book’s lifetime.

RVC: That’s a lovely way to put it–so many writers feel like this is such a mercenary industry, but it’s really about relationships.

TN: Absolutely.

RVC: You’ve said, “A good picture book should be able to be read by anybody.” What does that mean to you?

TN: Huh. I don’t know that I agree with the past self that said that. “Able to be read” to be read as in “available and allowed access to”? Yes, of course. But I feel strongly that no one should ever set out to write a book that will be loved by everybody. That’s how we get mediocre, similar, unchallenging books. A good book is a book that lots of kids will love, but for one kid, it will be the only book they love, or the first book they love—the book that makes them realize they’re not alone. The way to make such a book is not to set out to write something that will please broadly.

RVC: Tell me about a picture book or two that were particularly challenging to edit, and what made them so?

TN: Ah those are trade secrets, my friend.

RVC: Hah, okay. I have to ask, right? Now, how important is pacing in a picture book?

TN: Exceptionally.

RVC: What are some of your best examples of great pacing? 

TN: Shawn Harris’ illustration work in Dave Eggers’ Her Right Foot is some of the best pacing I’ve ever seen in a picture book, and dealing with an unusual structure: The book is 112 pages, but the text isn’t all that long, only around 1500 words. Shawn’s innovation was to spool that text out carefully, so that each page has only a sentence or two on it. The effect is twofold—a parent doesn’t have to spend five minutes reading one single spread of text while their listener gets bored and starts to play with a toy (a problem with books consisting of gigantic blocks of text on every spread), and the reader has a sense of suspense. The sentences on each page start to build, and you start to wonder what’s coming. My metaphors are all cliché—the rolling of a snowball, the rumbling of an earthquake, the boiling in a pot—but what Shawn effects by placing the sentences as intentionally as he does is nothing short of an explosion of meaning and emotion when we reach the climax of the book. Shawn’s work in his visual pacing matches perfectly the narrative pacing in Dave’s text.

RVC: Since you brought up Dave Eggers, let me ask something writers wonder about. How is it different working with bigger-​name writers than debut authors? 

TN: The editor’s job is always to make each book its best self. That job doesn’t change no matter who you’re working with. The only difference in the task is that every book has a different best self, even books by the same author, so it’s your job to figure out what that unique best self is, and then work to shape the book according to that ideal self.

RVC: What sets Neal Porter Books apart in the competitive landscape of picture book publishing?

TN: Neal Porter Books places utmost emphasis on the highest quality and importance. Each of those adjectives apply both visually and narratively to the books that Neal has always published. These are books that look like nothing else and sound like nothing else, books that take those risks to greatness. I think the key is that, while we are a business and do have to hope that our books make money, we are looking for true works of art above all else: books that weren’t created with the intention to sell, or with the intention of making their author famous, but were simply created from a place of honesty and storytelling and an understanding of children and childhood. They are books that don’t condescend to children, but recognize that kids have just as vast, rich, complicated inner lives as adults do. They are books by people who value the authentic experience of children and are working to meet those children where they actually are.

RVC: Well said. Thanks for that. Let’s clarify something else that writers often don’t understand. You’re Executive Editor these days. How’s that different than Editor? 

TN: The main difference is in the ability to self-​direct. The team I work with now is much smaller, so we can be much nimbler and make decisions quickly. We have a lot of fun, I have to say! As an editor at Chronicle Books, I was a smaller part of a larger machine, so things took longer and required more elaborate obstacle courses.

RVC: What is the most difficult aspect of your work? 

TN: I wouldn’t characterize this as difficult, because I love it, but I would say that it’s not a job for someone who wants a clean break between work and home life. There are very few minutes in a day when I’m not actively doing my job. It’s my whole life. I feel really lucky about that. But I realize most people probably want a bit more personal time. :] 

RVC: What’s the most common misconception about being an editor? 

TN: That it is easy, and that kids’ books are cute. Also, most people don’t realize that—most people you meet think they want to write or have written a picture book. It’s a very sweet impulse and I’m glad humans are a people with such a pure storytelling instinct, but most of the books I hear about don’t necessarily warrant publication, which can be kind of a conversation killer. :] So I try to avoid telling people what my job is in taxis or at cocktail parties.

RVC: What keeps you motivated to continue being a kidlit editor?

TN: The job itself. The people devoting their lives to this. Art. The way original stories never stop being told. There’s no end to the motivation.

RVC: Here’s one of those commonly asked questions that people still love to ask. How can new authors or illustrators get their work noticed in this competitive field?

TN: Get an agent; say yes to everything; be easy to find online and legible once found; go to events that you don’t feel like going to and talk to more people than you think you should have to. Again, the personal relationships in this business are everything. They are what will get you in it and what will get you through it. Take care of those better than you do your house keys.

RVC: Last question for this part of the interview. What’s the most treasured picture book in your collection, and why?

TN: Rotten Island, by William Steig. I could talk to you for hours about how important Steig is, how much he understood the value of character and how his decision always to lead with story and character rather than concept or “moral” is why the books stand the test of time (and, in many cases, actually convey something meaningful far better than the books who start out with that explicit purpose).

RVC: Totally agree!

TN: The reason Rotten Island is an extremely important book to me is because of how much I loved this book as a kid, and how much I was not the intended audience of this book. Rotten Island is about this island where everything that happens is rotten and everyone on it is rotten, to the extent that even when a flower blooms, they fight over the flower because it’s the first beautiful thing anyone has ever seen. I was a typical good kid, loved my teachers and hated being in trouble, hated people being mad at me, identified as Mary Ann from the BSC because she cried all the time and Baby Spice because my mom was my best friend. But I loved this book. It’s a major reminder to me that we (as both kids and adults) turn to books for all kinds of reasons. Yes, we turn to books to feel seen and to see our realities reflected. But we also turn to books to exorcise the pieces of ourselves that we dislike, to experiment with ways that we don’t feel comfortable being in real life, to go live somewhere as our own categorical opposite and see how it feels. Fiction can be and should be somewhere you can go be someone else for a little while. What a relief that there is such a place! Take me to Rotten Island any day.

RVC: Alright, Taylor. It’s time to up the ante and raise the stakes—it’s the LIGHTNING ROUND! We’re looking for zappy questions followed by zoomy answers. Are you ready?

TN: Yep!

RVC: What makes you roll your eyes every time you see/​hear/​read it? 

TN: “SEL.” Every piece of fiction should be a social emotional learning experience. That’s what reading is! To name it as such feels like a real estate agent trying to convince you that “SoMa” is a different and far more romantic place than “South of Market.”

RVC: Most surprising song on your playlist?

TN: My most listened to albums, by a good margin, are A Tribe Called Quest’s The Low End Theory (my choice) and the Snow White Original Soundtrack (my young son’s current obsession).

RVC: Most underappreciated Girl Scout cookie?

TN: Well, you know you’ve become an adult when you suddenly start evangelizing for Peanut Butter Sandwiches over Peanut Butter Patties, and I’m nothing special in that regard.

RVC: If you could trade lives with any picture book character for a day, who would it be and what would you do? 

TN: I’d be a dog in Go, Dog. Go! Not one of the hat conversationalists. Just one of the regular dogs. I’d go to that dog party in the tree!

RVC: What’s a recent picture book that deserves a lot of notice than it’s gotten so far?

TN: Our Pool, by Lucy Ruth Cummins, and There Was a Party for Langston: King O’ Letters, written by Jason Reynolds, illustrated by Jarrett and Jerome Pumphrey. These are two of my favorite books this year. Lucy’s is the kind of book that reminds you how important a fun book is—a book that feels exactly like the joy and exhilaration of going to the pool on a hot no-​school day. It’s incredibly inclusive, even down to the fact that the speaker of the book is never identified, so as you read you can kind of “choose” which character you want to pretend to be, depending on which of the many lifestyles you see. It’s a sensational book, literally: Reading it you can sense the squelch in your flipflops, smell the chlorine and the humid changing room, feel the sun burning your eyes. It’s as bright as a sunglasses-​free afternoon and as happy as the ice cream truck coming around the corner. So good.

And Langston pulls off the hardest feat ever—making relevant an artist who most young readers won’t have encountered yet. I can guarantee that this book will be the reason many kids go read their first Langston Hughes poem. The book truly does feel, look, and sound like a party. Jason’s text is beyond engaging, doesn’t just ask the reader to dance but actually makes them want to and actually makes them feel like they’re pulling off all the best moves. And the Pumphreys’ artwork, and general visual concept, is stunning—a whole new world for them, ambitious and ridiculously successful. Everyone brought their A‑game to this book.

RVC: [Note the OPB piece on the Langston book right here!] Complete the sentence in five words or fewer: “Taylor Norman is an editor who…”

TN: believes readers need all books.

RVC: Thanks so much, Taylor!

Editor Interview: Meredith Mundy (Abrams Appleseed)

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Welcome to Meredith Mundy, the Editorial Director at Abrams Appleseed. With a career spanning over two decades, Meredith’s keen eye for quality has helped discover and nurture many talented authors and illustrators. Her work on everything from an alphabet book showcasing Persian foods to a picture book debut (with flaps to lift!) about a very picky panda shows her dedication to uncovering hidden gems and bringing them to a wider audience

Meredith’s dedication goes beyond her role as an editor, as she is known to champion authors with unique vision and talent. Her triumph in giving the green light to projects that are unconventional yet promising showcases her leadership in the field.

To give you a glimpse into Meredith’s personality and passions, here are 7 Fun Facts:

  • Favorite Picture Book Characters from Childhood: Sam, from Sam, Bangs & Moonshine by Evaline Ness, and Lyle from Lyle, Lyle Crocodile by Bernard Waber
  • Current Picture Book Favorites (not from Abrams): School’s First Day of School by Adam Rex and Christian Robinson, Love in the Library by Maggie Tokuda-​Hall and Yas Imamura, A Sick Day for Amos McGee by Philip C. Stead and Erin E. Stead
  • Best Moment in Editing: Every time I’ve helped an author find the perfect title (so much harder than it looks!)
  • Favorite Picture Book Genre: Anything with humor and heart—fiction or nonfiction
  • Motto for Selecting Manuscripts: Is it special enough?
  • Go-​To Bookstore: McNally Jackson Books at South Street Seaport (excellent children’s section)
  • Culinary Talent: I make a mean brunch: artichoke & red pepper quiche + my mom’s Morning Glory Muffin recipe

What a list, right?

Now, without further ado, let’s dive into the interview and uncover more about Meredith and her work in the kidlit industry!

RVC: When did you realize editing was your pathway forward?

MM: My brilliant 6th grade teacher, Mrs. Meyers, allowed each of her students to pick out someone in the community to shadow for an entire day. Some kids shadowed veterinarians, firefighters, train conductors, but I wanted to “meet the person who makes the books,” so she connected me with an editor at a local publisher, and I was hooked! He was so passionate about his work, and the fact that he got to read for much of the day sealed the deal.

RVC: When you were getting your BA in Comparative Literature with a minor in Studio Art at Smith College, what was the intended career outcome?

MM: As improbable as it sounds, I held onto my dream of being “the person who makes the books” from 6th grade all the way through college, serving as a peer writing tutor and library assistant as part of my work-​study arrangement, and taking two years of bookmaking with the intensely talented woodcut artist and sculptor Elliot Offner. In that class we were required to write, illustrate, typeset (lead letter by delicate lead letter, sometimes using tweezers, especially for the skinny lowercase “i”), print, bind, and sell a small print run of books. What an experience it was to create a book from beginning to end like that! I always sort of assumed I would be an editor of adult books, but when I did an informational interview with a Smith alum who adored her job as a children’s book editor and knew of an editorial assistant position, I jumped at the chance, and I haven’t looked back.

RVC: I’ve got to ask. How was your junior year abroad at the Sorbonne?

MM: Fantastique! (Or, as my French pen pal would have written back in the day: “Super-​mega-​top!”) There is nothing more humbling or more eye-​opening than living as a foreigner in a foreign land. In my program, we were not allowed to speak English, so our language skills improved quickly out of sheer survival necessity. It was intimidating to take classes in French, but I loved the novels we read, especially L’amant (The Lover) by Marguerite Duras and Que Ma Joie Demeure (That My Joy Remain) by Jean Giono. Amazing books.

RVC: You’ve worked at a lot of big publishers, but you’ve been with Abrams for about six years. Why is that a great fit? 

MM: I’ve loved every publishing job I’ve had and am so grateful for the incredible mentors who taught me how to be an editor while on the job. Abrams is a great fit because at this stage in my career what I value most is the support of a brilliant team and a lot of creative freedom. Our publisher and associate publisher truly value and reward editors’ passions and instincts, which is a tremendous gift.

RVC: What’s the most important thing for people to know or understand about Appleseed?

MM: We try to never underestimate the capacity of a young reader and want all kids to be able to see themselves in our books.

RVC: What’s the philosophy behind Appleseed books? How do you ensure a wide readership?

MM: From its inception, Appleseed has been about pairing the comfort of familiar objects or situations with a twist on the familiar—something unexpected. When acquiring new projects, we look for aspects that make a book as universal as possible, but we’re also thrilled by book submissions that appear at first to be somewhat narrow in scope but are just too delightful or special to resist and in fact could end up reaching a wide readership.

RVC: What’s the most difficult aspect of your work?

MM: Dealing with the financial challenges of making four-​color books. There hasn’t been a book yet that I haven’t been able to make due to high costs, but there is a ton of time-​consuming, behind-​the-​scenes trial and error effort involved in getting a P&L (profit and loss sheet) for a picture book or board book to balance before an offer can even be made to an author or illustrator.

RVC: What is your approach to editing a picture book manuscript? How do you work with authors to maintain their vision while enhancing the story?

MM: As much as possible, I try to take the “I” out of the equation. It doesn’t matter what “I” think or want—what matters is shaping the best possible version of an author’s manuscript for the benefit of their readers. So, I ask a LOT of questions in my editorial notes, which gives authors the opportunity to solve problems in whatever way feels right to them. Nine times out of ten, a solution an author comes back with surprises and delights me and is better than anything I would have thought to suggest.

RVC: In your experience, what are some common mistakes made by authors writing picture books, and how can they avoid them?

MM: 90% of the time, we reject a submission because it’s just not special or original enough. Absolutely everyone thinks they can write a book for children. And that’s true! But can everyone write a children’s book that adds something truly new and needed to what’s already out there? That’s a much bigger challenge.

RVC: What’s the most memorable piece of advice you’ve given to a picture book author that made a significant difference in their work?

MM: A few years ago I received a young rhyming picture book submission about penguins that was well-​written and funny but too slight for a hardcover. I rejected it but then couldn’t stop thinking about it—the writing stuck with me. I emailed the agent back and asked if the author might consider really delving into the subject and making the book nonfiction. The author revised expertly, writing a lyrical (still-​rhyming) nonfiction text with a terrific author’s note about the incredible hardships endured by emperor penguins as they raise their chicks, and in its new form, I was able to acquire it! It’s Penguin Journey, written by Angela Burke Kunkel and illustrated by Catherine Odell.

RVC: I love that story…almost as much as I love penguins (which is a LOT!). Now, please share insights on current trends in picture books, and where you think the industry is headed.

MM: Picture book editors across the industry are striving toward greater inclusivity and these efforts will continue to inform editorial decisions. We want our readers and their families to see themselves in the characters and settings and situations pictured in our books. With all the book-​banning threats cropping up across the U.S., many publishers are defiantly publishing for ALL readers who need to be seen and validated.

RVC: In previous interviews, you’ve mentioned the importance of finding the right “comp” titles. How has this approach evolved over the years, and how does it inform your decision-​making process?

MM: Comparison titles continue to be a very important part of the acquisitions process, allowing our Sales, Marketing, and Publicity teams to see where a prospective book might fit in the marketplace and on our list. If we can find already-​published books that prove a particular topic or genre is wanted and needed by book-​buyers, then it’s much easier for the acquisitions team to imagine a brand-​new project forging a successful path. Even a book proposal that appears to be a true one-​of-​a-​kind can be creatively compared to something else on the market. That’s one way comp title lists have evolved—we’re not necessarily looking for one-​to-​one comparisons, but rather glimpses into what a book’s potential could be compared to other books that have found a welcoming readership.

RVC: How do you build consensus within your in-​house team to take a chance on unique or unconventional projects? What challenges have you faced in this process?

MM: It all starts in our editorial meetings, where editors bring promising submissions and discuss the upsides and downsides of each one. There’s really no such thing as “not my cup of tea.” Is the book something readers need that doesn’t already exist in the world? Is there a hole in the market that a book would fill? If the answer to one or both questions is “yes,” and enough people are enthusiastic about a project, it goes to our Pub Board for discussion with the larger group, including Sales, Marketing, and Publicity. In both these meetings editors need to make a convincing argument for why a book and/​or creator belong on the list.

It is sometimes challenging to make a case for a book that at first appears as though it might have a limited audience, but if you can find the universal elements in a project that would appeal to the greatest number of readers OR if you can convince the team that a book might just be the first on a particular topic, then a book often gets a green light. We so appreciate agents and authors who help us make these arguments by including detailed information in their cover letters!

RVC: What are some upcoming picture book projects that you’re particularly excited about?

MM: I’m excited about ALL of them, but I’ll pick four coming out in 2024 that have been especially delightful to work on: a joyful celebration of great Black leaders called Hair Like Obama’s, Hands Like LeBron’s written by Carole Boston Weatherford and illustrated by Savanna Durr; a very funny approach to social etiquette and making guests feel welcome called We’re Having a Party (for Everyone!), written and illustrated by Katie Vernon; an empowering story about a girl performing for the first time in her mother’s mariachi band called Mamiachi and Me written by mother-​son duo Jolene and Dakota Gutiérrez and illustrated by Mirelle Ortega; and a dreamy alphabet book about mindfulness called ABCs for a Peaceful Me written by Shelly Becker and illustrated by Dan Yaccarino.

RVC: Hold onto your apples, folks, because it’s now time for the EXTENDED SPEED ROUND with double the fun as normal. WOWZA! Here come a whole bunch of blasty-​fasty questions followed by an equal number of zippy-​zappy answers. Are you ready, Meredith?

MM: Lay ’em on me!

RVC: Funniest word in the English language?

MM: Flibbertigibbet!

RVC: If animals could talk, which would be the most annoying?

MM: Squirrels.

RVC: Go‑to song for the car when you’re driving by yourself?

MM: Whatever’s playing on XM Radio’s Broadway station. This morning: “Consider Yourself” from Oliver!

RVC: Favorite time of day?

MM: 5:30am when the birds start chirping.

RVC: Favorite summer activity?

MM: Night swimming.

RVC: Favorite kind of tea?

MM: Harney & Sons Vanilla Comoro.

RVC: Favorite practical joke to play on houseguests?

MM: Life-​size rubber alligator in the bathtub!

RVC: Books on your nightstand right now?

MM: The Sorrows of Others by Ada Zhang, Musical Tables by Billy Collins, and my “One Line a Day” 5‑year memory journal.

RVC: What’s a book that changed your perspective on picture books?

MM: Where the Wild Things Are, by Maurice Sendak. I took a college seminar on children’s books at Smith and we spent a VERY long time dissecting the design and text and character arc within that single 48-​page book. Getting a guided tour of its inner workings gave me my first inkling that the picture book was an art form I wanted to dive into more deeply.

RVC: What’s the biggest risk you’ve taken in your career?

MM: Jumping from a house where I was editing books for readers of all ages to my current position in which I edit only books for 0–5 (with the occasional older outlier). It’s been a joy to focus deeply on one age group, but it definitely felt like a risky move at first.

RVC: Final question! What’s one word that best describes your editing style?

MM: Collaborative.

RVC: Thanks so much, Meredith!

Editor Interview: Sandra Sutter (Gnome Road)

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Welcome to Sandra Sutter, the dynamic force behind Gnome Road Publishing, a vibrant press that is lighting the way for readers young and old. With a mission to produce books that engage, inform, and bring joy to the world, Sandra’s press is all about that “R” factor…Re-Readability!

Here’s Sandra’s wonderful mission statement to give us a glimpse into the soul of Gnome Road:

“To Our Readers: We produce books that engage and inform, develop and strengthen a love for reading, and bring smiles and laughter to the world. Our books are made with all readers in mind…”

Just a few aspects to make you go “Wow!”:

  • Gnome Road Publishing focuses on creating cherished, lasting books that light the way on a lifetime of reading adventures.
  • Sandra’s dedication to her creatives is unmatched, offering respect, support, and fostering collaboration and community.
  • Their approach to picture books emphasizes both engagement and education, crafting stories that can be read time and again.

Intrigued? You should be! Let’s dive into the interview and discover the unique insights and wisdom Sandra Sutter has to share about the world of picture books, her own press, and the ever-​fascinating picture book industry.

Prepare to be inspired! 📚✨

Gnome Road’s Instagram

Gnome Road’s Website

SS: That is such a lovely introduction! Thank you for inviting me to your blog to share more about Gnome Road Publishing with your readers.

RVC: We’re happy to have you here, Sandra, and we want to know more. So, please share your journey into the publishing world before founding Gnome Road Publishing. What experiences shaped your decision to start your own press?

SS: Many people may already know that I authored two picture books with another small press, so it is likely no surprise to hear that this was part of my journey into the publishing arena. Probably less well known is that I was once an attorney, mediator, and before that, an addictions counselor. My education, training and experience in those roles definitely shaped who I am as a publisher. They all dealt with bringing people or ideas together, using language and reshaping it to communicate with an audience, and looking at situations systemically. That and needing to be very organized!

RVC: Sounds like perfect training.

SS: Looking back, I can see how my work in those positions drove my desire to find a similar fit in the publishing world.

RVC: Tell us about a challenge you faced earlier in your career that taught you a valuable lesson you’ve applied to your work at Gnome Road Publishing?

SS: When my first book was published (as an author), I did not have the benefit of pre-​release professional reviews. These are very important in directing attention to a book and gaining visibility as a publishing house. We do this for all GRP title releases.

RVC: That’s a useful thing for sure! What’s the most important thing people should know or understand about Gnome Road?

SS: We hope that all young readers can find at least one book at GRP that they love and want to read over and over again. This is central to our mission and helps us in selecting new stories. We like variety, finding new talent, and creating books with layered themes that can reach as many readers as possible.

RVC: You’ve mentioned being an author as well. How does that background help you in your gnomework?

SS: Gnomework! I love that!

RVC: It’s a winner word, no doubt. Feel free to use it regularly.

SS: Apart from the answer that it helps with editing and recognizing good writing, already being part of the Kidlit community helped me tremendously in spreading the word about GRP and finding talented authors and illustrators. I’m also pretty fast at typing–which helps in completing my gnomework.

RVC: Tell us the story behind your first picture book.

SS: I’m going to talk about the first picture book published by GRP rather than my own.

RVC: Fair enough!

SS: Technically, there are two since they came out on the same day. They are Animals in Surprising Shades: Poems About Earth’s Colorful Creatures by Susan Johnston Taylor (illustrated by Annie Bakst) and Science, Matter and the Baseball Park by Catherine Ciocchi (illustrated by Chantelle and Burgen Thorne). In both cases, I knew almost immediately that I wanted to acquire them. They seemed like an excellent fit with the GRP mission statement. Susan’s presentation of poems and carefully constructed sidebar information was enough for me to ask for more–and then to sign the project when she delivered. And Catherine’s rhyming, science-​infused baseball book had kid-​appeal practically dripping off the pages.

RVC: What was the most important thing you learned from that book?

SS: These were some of the first books to test my ability to pair text with the right illustrations. Personally, I think we hit it out of the ballpark (bad pun intended). It is not an easy process, but I’ve learned that being patient and trusting my instincts will pay off.

RVC: You seem astonishingly busy. (from your website: “We are also parents, business owners, and all-​around daily task-​masters.”) How do you manage wearing so many hats?

SS: Yes, that’s true. I’ve had nights I get up at 3:00 am to do work and manage my anxiety about getting it all done. It helps to be organized, too. As things evolved at GRP, I learned to delegate more and have found some great people to help out with different tasks or in areas that would take me two or three times as long (maybe more) to get something done. That helps a lot!

RVC: Why is Louisville the right place for Gnome Road to be located?

SS: That’s an easy one. I live here. It would be hard to locate it somewhere else.

RVC: Hah, great answer! Now, how do you approach the collaboration between authors and illustrators in the creation of a picture book?

SS: Since picture books reflect the vision of both an author and illustrator (actually, of more people–including agents, editors, critique partners, etc.), both parties need to feel heard and to have room to express themselves. I start by finding out more about the author’s vision for the book (if not an author-​illustrator) and ask to see some images that appeal to them. I share a few that interest me, and we discuss potential styles and/​or artists.

Once the illustrator is on board, we talk about the author’s vision early in the process and discuss what the illustrator has in mind. The author is looped in again a little later when character sketches and thumbnails/​storyboards are completed to share thoughts. At that point, the illustrator takes the reins until the images are nearly complete.

RVC: What’s your philosophy on balancing educational content with entertainment in picture books?

SS: I think kids inherently love to learn and to share knowledge with others. And what better way to learn something new than through a book? But still, if readers aren’t connecting with the material and enjoying the experience, then a book won’t be of interest to them for very long. Nor will they want to share it with anyone else. So, entertainment is very important–which is, of course, a different experience for each reader. Bright, vivid illustrations, or soft quiet pastels. Humorous dialogue, or a rhyming informational text. All styles can carry entertainment value. The tricky part is finding how to balance it in the right amounts for each project.

RVC: Please share an example of a particularly successful picture book from Gnome Road and what made it stand out.

SS: One that really stands out this year is My Piano by Jen Fier Jasinski, illustrated by Anita Bagdi. Jen’s writing is superb. She effectively layers social-​emotional themes on top of describing how a piano works (in rhyme and cumulative structure). My team fell in love with the manuscript immediately.

And then…I found Anita to illustrate. She truly nailed it. Somehow she wrapped technical illustrations, an adorable main character, and the magical feel of music all together in one package. It recently earned a starred review from School Library Journal. Hooray!

RVC: How does Gnome Road Publishing ensure the “R” factor (Re-​Readability) in the picture books you publish?

SS: I can refer you to my prior answer about balancing educational and entertainment elements as that has something to do with it. But one thing I think all books with the “R” factor have is layers. Some people might call these hooks, but I think it goes deeper than that. A book that kids want to read over and over again is going to do more than hook them. It’s going to hold their attention long after they finish reading it. In that sense, I think the story has to touch them in a personal way. We hope to produce books that can do that for children from all walks of life. Ensuring the “R” factor means staying open to new topics, perspectives, art and communication styles.

RVC: What are some of the common pitfalls you notice in picture book submissions, and how can authors avoid them?

SS: Do your homework about what a publishing house is looking for or not looking for (in other words, read the information on the submissions page and do some research). See if they have published or will soon publish something that is similar to your project. If they are small–like GRP–then they likely aren’t looking for something on the same topic right away. If asked to limit submissions to one per submission window, please refrain from sending multiple manuscripts. In short, I think being professional, following the requested formats, and staying within the interests of the publishing house will give you a much better chance at getting published.

RVC: I’m intrigued by the Little Gnome imprint. Tell me more!

SS: I think the answer may disappoint you. Originally, we split GRP into different imprints that were rearranged when we decided to focus solely on picture books for a while. If/​when we decide to open up to board books and projects that might be suitable for the 0–3 age group, then Little Gnome will be the imprint used for those.

RVC: One more question for this part of the interview. It’s brag time. What are some exciting Gnome Road things we should be looking for?

SS: Well, a couple of our titles are set up to have sequels, and there might be a few announcements about that coming soon. We have also had some lovely reviews and several titles recognized for great writing or illustrations. Nudi Gill: Poison Powerhouse of the Sea by author-​illustrator Bonnie Kelso was selected as the “Great Reads from Great Places” children’s book to represent Nevada at the National Book Festival in Washington, D.C. Bonnie just returned from that trip where she sold out of her books within hours. (That was another project I thought was perfect for GRP when I saw it in the submissions inbox–and we now have several more books coming out with Bonnie over the next few years. She’s amazing!)

RVC: I hear you there–Bonnie has done an OPB review before, and I’ve interviewed her here, too! But now it’s time to change gears because it’s the BLITZ ROUND—super speedy Qs followed by zip-​zappy As. Are you ready to tackle this challenge? 

SS: Always.

RVC: Coffee, soda, or tea?

SS: Coffee. You saw my answer mentioning 3:00 am above, right?

RVC: If you could be any sea creature for a day, it’d be…

SS: Dolphin. They’re fast, smart, and super cool.

RVC: If your life was a picture book, what would the title be?

SS: Have I Lost My Mind? It’s an interactive search-​and-​find book.

RVC: One book that has profoundly influenced your career?

SS: I don’t know that there is only one, but when I think about GRP looking to publish books that have the “R” factor, I would have to say The Hunger Games (whole series). It’s the multiple layers that really draw me in, and that it’s an “underdog” story. I hope young readers want to read a GRP book as much as I’ve read/​listened to/​seen The Hunger Games.

RVC: In three words or less, the most rewarding part of your job?

SS: Bringing people together.

RVC: Best thing a child has said about a Gnome Road book?

SS: “I love that book!”

RVC: Thanks so much, Sandra!

Editor Interview: Celia Lee (Simon & Schuster Books for Young Readers)

On By Only Picture BooksIn Editor Interviews3 Comments

Welcome to Celia Lee, an executive editor at Simon & Schuster Books for Young Readers, where she works with creators on all things illustrated, from picture books and early illustrated chapter books and middle grade to graphic novels for all ages.

The list of authors and illustrators she’s partnered with is wow-​worthy. To name just a few:

Celia previously worked at Scholastic, where, in addition to editing, she helped start their employee diversity committee as well as coördinated their partnership with We Need Diverse Books ™. She also served for two years as a member of the Children’s Book Council (CBC) Diversity Committee and is a mentor for POC in Publishing.

As far as academic credentials go, Celia studied English Literature and Art History at Virginia Tech and earned a MS in Publishing from NYU.

Let’s learn more about Celia and her work right now!

RVC: Rumor has it that you were a fan of Charlotte’s Web as a child. What about E.B. White’s book appealed so much?

CL: Fan was an understatement–I was obsessed! I think it was the first book I read that made me feel like I was important and that I could handle important topics, like death and growing up. I have always had a penchant for being mopey and melancholy and White’s lines about the changing of the seasons and our state of existence spoke to me in a way that made me realize books could really see you.

Plus, spiders really are heroes!

RVC: I’ve been a lifelong fan of White myself. Not as much for Charlotte’s Web or The Elements of Style–which are both terrific–but rather this letter he wrote. Have you encountered it before? 

CL: Yes! It’s deliciously perfect–I’ve been keeping that line handy in my mind palace for when I really have to back out of something with style. 🙂

RVC: Yeah, White’s pretty terrific. Now, back to you! At what point did you realize you were going to work in publishing? That English Lit + Art History combo platter has me wondering…as does that internship with the American Physiological Society!

CL: I actually sort of suspected maybe publishing was a possibility during my senior year of high school. I had a wonderful and inspiring AP English Lit teacher, Mr. Craver, who mentioned that working in books was a thing and that was the tiny little hopeful spark I held onto and kept feeding and feeding all throughout college with my coursework.

The APS internship was a little bit random! I was going to move to New York in the fall for grad school, but I needed a job that summer and I found the posting on Craigslist. I helped out in their communications department, drafting press releases on scientific studies. It was fun to learn about something totally different, and I got to talk to scientists and people excited about science!

RVC: After your undergrad degree at Virginia Tech, you earned an MS in Publishing from NYU. How common is it now for agents and editors to earn advanced degrees or certificates in publishing? 

CL: This is all very unscientific, but I’d say about a quarter of the folks I know working in publishing have an advanced degree or certificate. It’s by no means mandatory, but for a lot of us that went down that path it was a way to get the foot in the door–many of us came from places that were not close to NYC where the major publishers are. It provided access to folks working in the industry and fostered connections. I’m not sure if that’s the same for people in programs now, though, since so much of the industry has changed since the beginning of the pandemic.

RVC: What are some of the most useful things you learned in that program?

CL: Learning about the practical business stuff has been very useful. I took a great class on project management that has saved me tons of times on projects, that’s for sure.

RVC: Let’s get from Then until Now(ish). Could you briefly describe your career journey leading up to your role as Executive Editor at Simon & Schuster Books for Young Readers?

CL: After a stint as an intern/​editorial assistant at a small library publisher, I found a job as an editorial assistant in Scholastic’s former Book Clubs division, working on the ins and outs of curating the baby-​toddler-​preschool book clubs. That got me excited about board and picture books and how they were made, so when the Trade division had an opening in their Cartwheel books imprint, I immediately jumped in. Then after a few years there, the Book Clubs group needed someone to coördinate their We Need Diverse Books program, which was too exciting not to pass up, but when the pandemic happened I went back to the Trade group for one last time. Then the S&S BFYR was looking for an experienced picture book editor, and that was that! I’ve been here for about 2 years now. Sorry, that wasn’t brief at all!

RVC: No problem–we always appreciate a useful robust here at OPB! Now, who has been your biggest career cheerleader and mentor, and in what ways have they impacted your growth in the industry?

CL: I’ve been fortunate to have so many cheerleaders and mentors during my time working in publishing. All of my bosses have been mentors to me, for example. I’ve learned so much from them in different ways, but mostly on how to be a good editor and advocate. But the lovely thing about the kidlit community is that there is an abundance of kind-​hearted, caring, and talented folks at every level in every department–so many of my colleagues have been mentors to me whether they know it or not just by being there and leading by example. It’s what keeps me excited about work.

RVC: What was the story behind the first picture book you acquired? 

CL: You know, the memories behind some of my first picture books are a little hazy since I acquired board books and picture books in one big jumble when I started, but one of the early ones was this paperback picture book called Princess Puppy that was written by the late great Bernette Ford. I don’t think it’s in print anymore, but that really stuck out in my mind.

RVC: What surprised you most about the process of bringing that book to life?

CL: The editorial process was definitely surprising, only because I was just this little assistant editor working with this legendary author who had created and led my imprint so I had no idea what to expect!

RVC: As an editor, what would you say is the most rewarding part of your job and why?

CL: There’s nothing like that feeling of reading a manuscript or dummy and instantly falling in love with it and then being able to tell that author or illustrator that yes, we want to make it into a book! That little kick-​off celebratory feeling that you share with the creator just fuels the rest of the process for me.

RVC: What are the key elements that make a picture book story engaging and memorable for young readers?

CL: Readaloudability, which Word is saying isn’t a word, but we all know it is. Picture books are supposed to be read aloud. The read needs to hold up the first time and the hundredth time!

RVC: Absolutely!

CL: I’m trying to think of something clever that will pair with readaloudability that applies to images–illustration scanability? Storystration? Basically the illustrations need to have multiple places for little eyes to land on and explore. Most picture book readers aren’t reading–the images are all they have, so those images better be telling a story, too!

RVC: Terrific point, Celia. What are your thoughts on Back Matter?

CL: It’s great, but not needed for every book.

RVC: What about rhyme?

CL:  It’s so integral to the early story time experience, yet I’m seeing fewer and fewer rhyming stories. A really good rhyme builds connections and sticks with you and opens the door to a love of reading. But writing in rhyme is not for the faint of heart–you have to remember that with rhyme comes meter, and that usually throws folks off.

RVC: What’s your assessment of where the industry is today in terms of diversity and representation?

CL: We’ve made some progress, but there’s still a long way to go, especially at the manager and executive levels in all departments. (See the POC in Publishing Industry Survey or Lee & Low’s Diversity Baseline Survey for more info).

RVC: How can people like me—and teachers, librarians, students, parents, and children—help?

CL: I think it’s important to ask about it and to elevate voices that are advocating for a publishing industry that better reflects what our readership looks like. And to demand for more diverse books and authors in general, too–those numbers aren’t great, either.

RVC: Let’s help out some of the creatives who read this blog. What tips do you have for illustrators looking to appeal to S&S BFYR when it comes to building their portfolios?

CL: I’ve said this in other places, but illustrators should be sure that they not only show figures, but also full-​blown scenes in their portfolios. It’s great to see that you do characters really well, but can you show those characters moving and reacting? That’s a question that comes up a lot when we see an artist’s portfolio with potential–sure, they can draw, but can they tell a story with their work?

RVC: In other interviews, you’ve mentioned the importance of characters’ eyes in conveying emotions in picture books. Can you elaborate on other critical elements in illustrations that can heighten a child’s engagement with the story?

CL: This is going to be very vague, but I always say a great illustration goes beyond what’s written and shows something more. A great illustrator brings new ideas to the illustration, to the story.

RVC: Let’s not ignore the writer folks. Are there any specific themes or subjects that you’re particularly interested in picture books submissions at S&S BFYR?

CL: I’m always in the market for humor and character-​based stories. And stories with a twist (or multiple twists, gasp!) delight me to no end.

RVC: What’s the most common reason to say no to a submission that’s 95% “got it goin’ on!” Where do writers tend to fall short of the I MUST BUY YOU impulse we all want editors to feel?

CL: Oooo that’s a hard one! I think there are so many factors that could contribute to that 5%. I feel like lately the endings are what’s bothering me. Right now, if that ending doesn’t deliver, then it really takes me out. But if you ask me that in six months, I’m sure I’ll have a different answer for you.

RVC: I’m curious—what’s your dream project to work on, if given the opportunity?

CL: I’ve gotten to work on so many dreamy books, but I guess my Everest is that perfect unreliable narrator story.

RVC: One last question for this part of the interview. Can you give us a sneak peek into some exciting new titles S&S BFYR has in the pipeline?

CL: There are so many good ones, so it’s hard to whittle it down, but a couple that are coming out in the next few months are I’m Going to Build a Snowman by Jashar Awan, Remembering by Xelena Gonzalez and illustrated by Adriana M. Garcia, and The Wishing Machine by Jonathan Hillman and illustrated by Nadia Alam.

RVC: Alright, Celia. It’s time to launch into the LIGHTNING ROUND! The point values are tripled and the One-​Minute Timer of DOOM*! is ready to get going. Are you ready? (*DOOM not guaranteed)

CL: Bring it on! I love answering things quickly, especially with the threat of DOOM!

RVC: Would you rather crank some tunes, read a book, or binge-​watch Netflix?

CL: I know as a book person, I’m supposed to say read a book, but I am a binge-​watching girly through and through! I just love stories in general, whatever that form might be.

RVC: If you could instantly become an expert in any field, what would you choose?

CL: Demolitions expert, hands down.

RVC: Your life is on the line. You need to sing one karaōke song to save it. What do you go with?

CL: I’ve been waiting for this question all my life. I pride myself on keeping an updated list of karaōke songs on my Notes app! My go-​to is “Call Me” by Blondie.

RVC: What’s the last picture book you read that actually made you LOL?

CL: Lucy Ruth Cummins’ A Hungry Lion, or A Dwindling Assortment of Animals. It’s just one big giggle fest for me.

RVC: What’s the One That Got Away?

CL: The Rabbit Listened by Cori Doerrfeld. I don’t think I’ll ever get over it!

RVC: Share a quote from a picture book you love.

CL:  Technically it’s a novelty book, but “I will love you as the iceberg loves the ship, and the passengers love the lifeboat and the lifeboat loves the teeth of the sperm whale, and the sperm whale loves the flavor of naval uniforms.” from The Beatrice Letters tickles me to no end.

RVC: Thanks so much, Celia! It was terrific having you stop by OPB to share your story. 

CL: Thanks for having me, Ryan! These are wonderful questions!

“Editor” interview: ChatGPT‑4 as a NYC Big 5 Picture Book Editor

On By Only Picture BooksIn Editor Interviews1 Comment

Things went kablooey this month when my intended interview subject–a human picture book editor–was unable to participate in time for this month’s post. It happens. I totally get it.

As a result, I figured I had three choices.

  1. Skip posting this Monday and see if anyone notices. (An internet “If a tree falls in a forest and no one’s around, does it still make a sound?” kind of experiment.)
  2. Run a Best-​of compilation that showcases some of the most memorable editor advice from previous posts.
  3. Do what everyone else seems to be doing–use AI to solve any problem we face.

#1 felt a little sad.

#2 felt like a lot of work.

That left #3 as the not-​quite-​clear-​cut-​option-​but-​else-​can-​I-​do? choice.

While I know there’s no replacement for the human component in creative industries, I’m interested to see how ChatGPT4 will fare–perhaps to smirk-​worthy results. We’ll see!

Rest assured, I’ll have humans partnering with me on future blog posts. Unless this post goes viral and I make a gazillion dollars. If that happens, I reserve the right to reconsider everything. 🙂

**Of course, I asked ChatGPT‑4 to come up with the questions, too, after sharing some of OPB’s previous posts to show the style, format, and sense of humor. It also wrote its own introductory bio, and for some reason, it’s using my last name. I don’t THINK we’re related, though. The images are prompted by ChatGPT‑4 and created in Midjourney, save for the single real-​world book cover–you’ll recognize it.**

This month’s Industry Insider Interview is with the incomparable Reginald Van Cleave, Senior Editor at a prestigious Big 5 New York City publisher. Known for his whimsical imagination and sharp editorial eye, he’s an alchemist of words and images in the world of picture books.

Reginald has been instrumental in the creation of countless award-​winning and bestselling titles. Some of his proudest moments include crafting The Day the Crayons Quit Climate Change and the captivating series, A Tiny Critter’s Big Adventure. With each project, Reginald seeks to blend the delightful with the meaningful, bringing stories to life that both enchant young readers and spark their curiosity about the world.

His journey in the publishing industry began at NYU, where he specialized in Children’s Literature and Art History. This unique combination armed him with a deep understanding of visual storytelling, a skill he wields to great effect in his current role.

When he’s not orchestrating the grand show of picture book publishing, Reginald indulges in his own secret talents—reading books upside down and perfecting the art of sushi-​making. His office, a creative chaos of sticky notes, vibrant highlighters, and a fortress of picture books, overlooks Central Park—the perfect space for dreaming up the next big hit.

Reginald champions the idea that a picture book is a magic carpet, taking children on journeys of discovery, fun, and learning. He’s like the Pied Piper of the publishing world, leading an ensemble of authors and illustrators in creating symphonies of words and art.

So, buckle up and join us as we dive into the wild, whimsical, and wonderful world of Reginald Van Cleave!

ChatGPT‑4: Can you please share a little about your professional journey that led you to become an editor at a Big 5 NYC publisher?

ChatGPT‑4: My career journey resembles a riveting, multi-​volume epic. It started in the foothills of editorial assistant-​ship where I tackled mountains of paperwork and brewed enough coffee to fill a small lake. From there, I graduated to higher roles, each one a new chapter, until I found my happily-​ever-​after in the world of picture books.

ChatGPT‑4: What first sparked your interest in picture books, and why do you continue to work in this specific genre?

ChatGPT‑4: Why picture books? That’s like asking why a butterfly loves flowers! The way words and images play tag on the pages has always fascinated me. I’m still entranced by this magical game, and it’s my absolute joy to be a part of it.

ChatGPT‑4: Can you describe a typical workday for you? How much of your time is spent in reading manuscripts, editing, meeting authors and illustrators, etc.?

ChatGPT‑4: A day in my life is akin to a three-​ring circus. I’m the ringmaster, gracefully managing a high-​wire act with manuscripts, lion-​taming the artistic egos, and juggling a flurry of meetings—all while trying to stop my coffee from turning into a magic disappearing act.

ChatGPT‑4: What’s your favorite part of your job as a picture book editor?

ChatGPT‑4: It’s when a book transforms from a caterpillar of rough sketches and raw text into a butterfly of full-​page illustrations and polished prose. There’s nothing like witnessing a new story spread its wings and take flight.

ChatGPT‑4: In your opinion, what are the key elements that make a great picture book?

ChatGPT‑4: Picture a cake—words form the sponge base, solid but often unremarkable on its own. The illustrations are the delectable icing, providing a visual feast that draws you in. Then comes the sprinkles—that elusive magic that brings delight, surprise, and depth, turning an ordinary cake into a treat to remember.

ChatGPT‑4: How do you balance the needs of both the child reader and the adult reader when evaluating a picture book manuscript?

ChatGPT‑4: Striking the right balance between adult and child readers is a bit like DJing a family party—you want to keep the kiddos dancing with catchy tunes, while also playing classics the adults can enjoy. It’s about weaving a tale that engages the child’s curiosity and entertains the adult’s sense of humor and insight.

ChatGPT‑4: What is the most common mistake you see from first-​time picture book authors?

ChatGPT‑4: They’re often like eager tour guides who spill all the secrets before the tour has truly begun, leaving no room for the reader’s imagination to explore.

ChatGPT‑4: How has the picture book industry changed since you’ve started working in it?

ChatGPT‑4: Picture books have grown from quaint black-​and-​white television shows to glorious technicolor blockbusters. Today’s books embrace a riot of styles, themes, and voices, with each one a unique portal into a world of wonder.

ChatGPT‑4: Talk about a few of the current trends you’re seeing in the picture book industry.

ChatGPT‑4: Imagine if a robot and a fairy were having a tea party while discussing global warming. Kids crave fun, fantastical elements meshed with real-​world themes that help them understand their place in the universe.

ChatGPT‑4: How do you see the role of diversity and representation in picture books evolving in today’s society?

ChatGPT‑4: Diversity and representation in picture books? It’s like a grand mosaic—each piece is unique, yet when brought together, they create a vibrant, captivating picture. The more diverse our characters and their experiences, the richer and more inclusive our literary landscape becomes.

ChatGPT‑4: What is the role of the editor in shaping and refining the story and illustrations of a picture book?

ChatGPT‑4: As an editor, I’m the friendly ghost, subtly influencing the story, helping authors and illustrators bring their vision to life. It’s like sculpting a topiary—you have to prune here, encourage growth there, until the raw hedge transforms into an intricate work of art.

ChatGPT‑4: Can you share an instance where you helped an author or illustrator significantly reshape their work for the better?

ChatGPT‑4: One memorable transformation involved a princess tale that morphed into an exciting adventure about a royal plumber. It was a change that not only subverted expectations but also promoted the idea of unconventional roles and dreams.

ChatGPT‑4: What do you look for in an illustrator’s portfolio? Any tips for illustrators hoping to break into the industry?

ChatGPT‑4: An illustrator’s portfolio should be a window into their unique world. For illustrators trying to make a mark, think of it like a peacock’s display—be bold, let your colors shine, and don’t be afraid to show off what makes you different.

ChatGPT‑4: How important is the author-​illustrator relationship in creating a successful picture book? How do you facilitate this relationship?

ChatGPT‑4: The relationship between author and illustrator is a well-​choreographed ballet. They must move in harmony, each contributing to the performance while I, the editor, play the role of the conductor, ensuring the show is seamless.

ChatGPT‑4: How do you decide whether a book will be a standalone or part of a series?

ChatGPT‑4: Deciding whether a book will be a standalone or part of a series involves several considerations. Firstly, the story’s narrative arc is crucial. If the plot naturally concludes and satisfies readers within a single book, it may work best as a standalone. However, if the story has the potential for further development, unresolved threads, or a broader story world, a series could be a suitable choice. Market demand and reader engagement also play a role. If a book resonates strongly with readers and shows potential for continued interest, extending it into a series can capitalize on that success. Ultimately, the decision hinges on the story’s narrative possibilities, reader engagement, and market viability.

ChatGPT‑4: Could you please discuss the process of creating a picture book from receiving the initial manuscript to the final publication?

ChatGPT‑4: Creating a picture book is a grand adventure. It begins with the quest for the perfect story (the manuscript), journeys through the realm of art (illustrations), faces trials of refinement (editing), and finally triumphs with the treasure in hand (publication).

ChatGPT‑4: What role do you believe picture books play in child literacy and development?

ChatGPT‑4: Picture books are the stepping stones in a child’s journey towards literacy. They’re like magic carpets that not only transport children into different worlds but also help them navigate the vast seas of language, emotions, and ideas.

ChatGPT‑4: Can you name a picture book you recently worked on that you’re particularly proud of, and why?

ChatGPT‑4: A recent book I’m particularly proud of is The Day the Crayons Quit Climate Change. It’s a delightful yet impactful tale that combines humor, drama, and a little bit of science to convey a profound message about environmental responsibility.

ChatGPT‑4: How do you handle the tension between commercial viability and artistic creativity when selecting a manuscript?

ChatGPT‑4: Balancing commercial viability and artistic creativity is like walking a tightrope while juggling flaming torches—it’s a risky, delicate act. But with the right mix of intuition, experience, and a dash of daring, it’s an act that often leads to the most exciting and impactful books.

ChatGPT‑4: How does the rise of digital media impact the picture book industry, and how are you adapting to it?

ChatGPT‑4: Well, it’s like discovering a new continent. It brings new challenges, but also new opportunities for storytelling. In this new landscape, we’re learning to create picture books that can leap off the page and come alive on the screen.

ChatGPT‑4: Can you describe some of the challenges of translating a picture book into different languages and cultures?

ChatGPT‑4: Translating a picture book into different languages and cultures is like turning a 2D sketch into a 3D model—you have to consider all the angles, make sure the essence of the story is captured, and that it resonates with the audience, no matter where they’re from.

ChatGPT‑4: How do you handle negative reviews or criticism of the books you’ve edited?

ChatGPT‑4: Handling negative reviews is like wrestling with a rhino—you don’t take it personally, you learn from it, and most importantly, you keep your sense of humor intact. Every book won’t be everyone’s cup of tea, and that’s okay.

ChatGPT‑4: What advice would you give to aspiring authors or illustrators wanting to break into the picture book industry?

ChatGPT‑4: Dive deep into your craft and soak up all the knowledge you can get. Picture books are all about connecting with those little readers, so make sure you understand what makes them tick. Polish your work until it shines brighter than a supernova. Build a portfolio that’s bursting with your unique style and creative genius. Do your homework on publishers who are hungry for picture book magic and follow their guidelines like a boss.

Most importantly, develop a voice that’s unmistakably YOU, something that makes editors go, “Wow, we need more of this!”

ChatGPT‑4: In your opinion, how will the picture book industry evolve in the next five years?

ChatGPT‑4: The picture book industry will continue to evolve dynamically over the next five years. Technology will play a significant role, with digital platforms and interactive experiences becoming more prevalent. We can expect augmented reality and virtual reality elements to enhance storytelling. Diverse voices and inclusive content will gain further prominence, reflecting the diverse world we live in. Collaborations between authors, illustrators, and multimedia experts will push boundaries and create innovative picture book experiences. Sustainability and eco-​consciousness may also become more important themes. Ultimately, the picture book industry will embrace new mediums, perspectives, and technologies, keeping the magic of storytelling alive for young readers.

ChatGPT‑4: On a personal note, do you have a favorite picture book from your own childhood? How has it influenced your work as an editor?

ChatGPT‑4: Where the Wild Things Are. It’s an exquisite blend of imagination, emotion, and artistry that captivated me as a child and continues to inspire me as an editor. After all, we’ve all got a little wild thing inside us, haven’t we?

ChatGPT‑4: We’re about to embark on a whirlwind journey, otherwise known as the Lightning Round. Fasten your seat belt and prepare for takeoff, Reginald. Are you ready to blaze a trail through these rapid-​fire questions?

ChatGPT‑4: Ah, the Lightning Round! My teacup is refilled, my monocle is polished, and my wit is at the ready. Let’s dash through these questions with the verve of a zebra galloping across the Serengeti!

ChatGPT‑4: What secret talent do you have that no one would suspect?

ChatGPT‑4: I can read books upside down. Yes, it comes in handy when I’m working across the table from an illustrator!

ChatGPT‑4: You can only eat one food for the rest of your life. What is it?

ChatGPT‑4: Definitely sushi! An endless supply of colorful, bite-​sized stories, each with a surprise inside—much like a picture book, don’t you think?

ChatGPT‑4: Five things we’d see if we checked out your favorite writing/​editing place.

ChatGPT‑4: You’d see: a tempest of sticky notes, a rainbow of highlighters, an army of coffee mugs, a view of Central Park, and of course, a fortress of picture books.

ChatGPT‑4: What’s the One That Got Away?

ChatGPT‑4: A tale about a stubborn unicorn who refused to believe in humans. It was whimsical, heartwarming, and unfortunately, slipped through our fingers.

ChatGPT‑4: Who sets the standard for writing picture books with heart?

ChatGPT‑4: It has to be Mo Willems. His Pigeon, Elephant, and Piggie have moved us to tears and laughter in equal measure, all while teaching us a thing or two about friendship and perseverance.

ChatGPT‑4: Write a haiku that sums up your picture book philosophy.

ChatGPT‑4:

Words and pictures dance,
Children’s laughter the sweet tune,
Magic in their hands.

ChatGPT‑4: This has been fun and interesting. Thanks for playing along.

ChatGPT‑4: Ah, well, it’s been an absolute delight waltzing through this whimsical wonderland of questions with you. As we close this chapter and look to the next, remember, dear reader, that in the world of picture books, anything is possible. So, keep turning the pages, keep dreaming in color, and most importantly, keep the kettle on for that next cup of imagination-​infused tea. From my circus of manuscripts to yours, thank you and happy reading!