Tag: Editor Interviews

Editor Interview: Cheryl Klein (Lee & Low Books)

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This month’s Industry Insider Interview is with Lee & Low Books’ Editorial Director, Cheryl Klein. She’s been on my Wish List for OPB for some time, so when I was asked in the 11th hour to provide a super-​brief intro for Cheryl’s talk at the SCBWI regional conference in Miami this past January, I knew the literary gods were smiling upon me.

To a roomful of SCBWI members, I shared these three things about Cheryl by way of an introduction:

1–“As a writing professor and creative writing program director, I regularly loan out writing craft books to students. That includes Cheryl’s The Magic Words: Writing Great books for Children and Young Adults.” [Then I turned to Cheryl and fake glared at her.] “Yours almost never comes back. I’ve had to buy many, many copies of it over the years. So THANKS for that!”

2–“My literary agent and I were recently talking about picture book editors recently. When Cheryl’s name came up, my agent simply said: ‘She’s good people.’ That’s all I needed to hear.”

3–“Since I launched OPB back in April of 2018, I’ve always had a short Wish List of people I wanted to interview. Some I landed. Jane Yolen. Liz Garton Scanlon. Floyd Cooper. Rob Sanders. Elizabeth Harding. Sylvie Frank. But a few have so far eluded me. One name that’s moved to the top of my 2019 OPB Wish List? Cheryl Klein.” [I now pretended to whisper to the crowd as if Cheryl wasn’t standing six feet to my right.] “I’m hoping that this fancy-​pants introduction might just tip the odds in my favor.”

And here we are, OPB and Cheryl–all thanks to social pressure, some literary luck, and good old-​fashioned schmoozing (and I mean that in only the best sense of the word “schmoozing,” which is really just networking, acting like a pro, and being pleasant, vs. people who are crazy, stalkery, and IN-​YOUR-​FACE pushy–we’ll do a special OPB Bonus Goodie on that “Don’t Do This!” topic another time).

But now that we’re all here and ready to go, let’s get cooking! Take it away, Cheryl!

Website: www.cherylklein.com
Facebook: www.facebook.com/cherylkleinedit/
Twitter: www.twitter.com/chavelaque
MS Wishlist: www.mswishlist.com/editor/chavelaque

RVC: Unlike most editors, you almost had another career … as a spy. How did that (almost) happen?

CK: As a former Midwesterner, I pride myself on my ability to be nice, bland, and unobtrusive to the point of inconspicuousness when I so choose. This served me well in making me a good observer and allowing me to pass through most places unremarked-upon—even if I was, say, carrying the unpublished manuscript for the seventh Harry Potter book (which I did once).

The privileges of being a middle-​class-​ish white lady help here too, of course.

RVC: As a fellow former Midwesterner, I, too, have been known to enter a crowded room and not be noticed until I had my foot stepped on. Depending on how you look at that, it might be considered a gift.

But back to your non-​spy career. Once you started working at Lee & Low, how did you know that you’d found your true calling? What were the signs?

CK: I’ve worked in the industry for nearly nineteen years now, and I felt like it’s my calling since day one. The main sign of that calling is the quality of my books and my relationships with my authors, I think, and how content I feel when I’m doing the work … the “mechanic’s delight,” as the late Canadian writer/​editor Brian Doyle called it, of seeing how much stronger a scene in a novel might be when we take out all the filter words, or discovering a new illustrator’s portfolio and connecting her with a manuscript that lets her talents shine. It makes me deeply happy to make books right or better. And one of the best parts of being an editorial director is helping my team figure out their own rights or betters, and do their best work too.

RVC: I sometimes hear writers bemoan how the days of Maxwell Perkins and hands-​on editors is long gone, and that most editors are just gatekeepers. Could you help dispel that myth by explaining some of the actual work that goes into taking a single picture book manuscript from promising-​manuscript-​I-​acquired to the-best-thing-we-collectively-can-create?

CK: This varies from manuscript to manuscript, and with whether the author is illustrating the book as well, but the process usually runs in three stages. In the first, the author and I think and talk about the concept or point of the book—what the story is, what the author wants to convey, how the project as a whole should feel to readers, where the child’s and adult’s pleasure or interest in it might come from. Here I write (typically long) letters saying what I’m presently seeing in the text, and asking how that differs from the author’s vision, and then defining and explaining what I hope to see in the book long-​term, if the author agrees. We talk that over until the author is ready to go off and revise.

In the second stage, the author takes all that feedback and conversation and moves around the necessary story pieces—or invents new ones—to put the book in a form that conveys the story and those thoughts and feelings compellingly. That might involve setting up a theme or idea on p. 4 that will then pay off on p. 26, or switching out one plot event for another, or just building out a character’s emotional arc a little more. With some manuscripts, we also try to figure out pagination at this point, while with other projects, I might leave that to the illustrator.

And in the third stage, we try to refine the language so it sounds marvelous when read aloud, leaves plenty of space for the illustrator, etc., etc. Here I do a lot of line-​editing on paper or in Track Changes, going back and forth until everything feels and sounds right to me and the author. Stages II & III tend to bleed into each other a lot, actually, because so much of the sense of picture books is in the sound of them—how a thought or emotion is phrased, even things like word choice. I always think about the fact that Where the Wild Things Are would be infinitely last satisfying if the last phrase were “and it was still warm.”

RVC: Unlike most picture book editors, you’re also an author. In fact, you have two picture books coming out in 2019. What advantages might you have by being both an editor and author versus solely being an author? 

CK: Mostly it’s that I have an intimate knowledge of what’s going on behind the scenes, from what might be happening in an Acquisitions meeting, through the thought process my editor might be going through in phrasing a revision request a specific way. This could be crazy-​making in the sense that I could worry, “Oh man, I heard that Barnes & Noble wants picture books with longer texts. Will the B&N rep speak up against my twelve-​word text in the Acquisitions meeting?”

RVC: I think all writers hear rumors/​trends like that from time to time and panic. A bit. Sometimes a lot.

CK: And while those thoughts do pass through my head, I’ve also been around the industry long enough to know that (a) a lot of this stuff is entirely out of my control, and hence not worth spending mental time on, if I can avoid it; (b) it isn’t personal – someone not liking my writing (particularly for market reasons) has nothing to do with who I am as a person, and my work has integrity no matter what that someone thinks; and © publishing opinions are never definitive or final. In six months, B&N may be begging for short texts, or an editor who didn’t respond to a text once might come around in a year or so and say “Hey, you know what? I can’t stop thinking about that manuscript, and now’s the right time to publish it.” (I know this in part because I have been that editor!) I’m also aware of just how much behind-​the-​scenes work is going on for a book, even when the author can’t see it, and I’m deeply grateful for that. So my knowledge of how things work mostly helps me let go.

RVC: Do you handle getting editorial notes any better than the rest of us?

CK: I will admit that I don’t love getting edits, but I try to think of them as problems to be solved: This is what I want to say; my editor is a smart reader, and she’s not understanding what I’m trying to do, as evinced by these edits; how can I fix the text to make her understand? Thinking that way takes my ego and its associated emotions out of the edits and helps me get the job done.

RVC: Tomie dePaola did the illustrations for your own picture book, Wings. What was it like working with an OMG illustrator? 

CK: My editor for Wings was Emma Ledbetter of Atheneum/​Simon & Schuster BFYR, now the editorial director at Abrams BFYR. She worked as Tomie’s in-​house editor at Simon & Schuster, and she knew he loved birds, so she suggested him, and I was blown away by the mere idea of having him do the book. I of course envisioned his lovely, thick-​lined, Strega Nona style at first—the one he’s best known for—and I was thrilled when I saw the new medium he used here: full-​page-​sized Avery labels, colored with markers and cut into shapes! It’s so simple, but in Tomie’s hands, so vibrant and artful, and perfect for the very elemental text. It’s been an honor and a pleasure, all the way around.

RVC: Quite a few writers keep nudging me to ask agents and editors about what they do and don’t want. So let’s toss them a bone. Please offer up three specific things that just aren’t your cup of literary oolong.

CK: List manuscripts (that is, texts that are basically lists on a topic) that don’t build up to illuminate some underlying story or theme; rhyming texts with no sense of purpose, meter, or form; and scatological stuff. As much as kids love poop, pee, and fart jokes, I’m afraid I just say “Ew.”

RVC: I can’t help it—I’m a giver! So let’s give writers one more thing to chew on. What do you dream of finding in the slush pile?

CK: A manuscript by a diverse author illuminating a story from a contemporary kid’s life or a historical or scientific concept through their specific cultural lens, written to achieve some specific emotional effect, and pulling it off so well that I can’t wait to share it with everyone I know.

RVC: One last thing about your own work as a writer. What motivated you to create your own book on writing, The Magic Words?

CK: The Magic Words is a revision of my first, self-​published book, Second Sight: Writing Great Books for Children and Young Adults, which was a collection of my SCBWI talks and personal blog posts and reflections on the art of writing. My motivation to write all of that material came in part from being asked to speak at various events, and in part from my longtime fascination with How Books Work, which dates back to my time as an English major in college. (I never went to grad school—I went into publishing instead—so my books on writing are kind of my attempt to do an M.A. on my own.) Still, maybe the thing I love most about great literature is that even when you take all the pieces apart as best you can—plot and theme and character and sound and so forth—there’s always some indefinable spark that can’t be captured:  life, or truth, or anima, or soul … But I do love trying to capture it, and taking those pieces apart accordingly.

RVC: Got a favorite takeaway or tip?

As for the best takeaways from The Magic Words, readers tend to love how practical the book is, so I’d point out the Character and Plot Checklists, which prompt readers to think about the essentials of both of those huge subjects as manifested in their own works-​in-​progress. I also place a strong emphasis on the fact that every writer is different, and no one writer’s technique is the One True Way That Will Work for Us All on Every Book—not even mine! But I offer a lot of options and directions to help each writer figure out their own True Way. And the closing essay on publishing puts forth one of my favorite similes: The submission process is as subjective and personal as dating, and to be approached rather like dating—with thoughtfulness about who you are, what your book is, and what you want out of the agent/​editor/​publishing relationship, and with a sense of humor as well.

RVC: Okay, it’s time to change things up. It’s time for … The OPB Speed Round! High-​velocity Qs and As only, please. Are you ready?

CK: Bring it on!

RVC: What would be hardest to give up: social media or TV?

CK: Social media!

RVC: Stranger Things. Great Netflix original series, or the greatest Netflix original series?

CK: Great! (But I confess I only watched season one.)

RVC: You’re hosting an ice cream party for picture book characters, but you’ve only got the fixings for yourself plus three guests. Who joins you for double fudgie sundaes with extra strawberry sprinkles?

CK: Princess Pinecone and the Pony from Kate Beaton’s The Princess and the Pony (which I co-​edited, I admit), and Lilly from Lilly’s Purple Plastic Purse. Lilly and Pinecone would get along famously, and the Pony and I would enjoy watching them as we ate all the ice cream.

RVC: What’s the most recent picture book you signed? And using only three words, explain why you bought it.

CK: Unstoppable: Thirteen Adventures Alongside Athletes with Physical Disabilities, by Patty Cisneros Prevo. In three words: Energy! Inspiring! Diverse!  

RVC: What’s the most underappreciated picture book of 2018?

CK: Oh, man. My favorite (non-​Lee & Low) picture book of the year was A Big Mooncake for Little Star by Grace Lin, but it received plenty of appreciation! I do wish more people had seen the Lee & Low book Every Month Is A New Year, by Marilyn Singer, with illustrations by Susan L. Roth, edited by my colleague Louise May. It’s a marvel of concept (the New Year’s celebrations that take place in each month of the year, somewhere around the world), research, poetry, illustration (all collage!), design, and backmatter.

RVC: Best compliment you’ve ever received? 

CK: Can I cite two—one professional, one personal? Sherry Thomas, a novelist I work with, said, “I didn’t think editors edited like this anymore” after we finished her book. And J. K. Rowling told me that I looked like Gwyneth Paltrow!

RVC: Thanks so much, Cheryl!

 

Editor Interview: Emily Feinberg (Roaring Brook Press)

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The first Industry Insider interview of 2019 is with Emily Feinberg, who got on my radar because her name kept appearing in the Dealmakers section of Publisher’s Marketplace. But what REALLY sealed the deal for me in terms of making her a priority must-​have for a 2019 Industry Insider interview? Her terrific Twitter bio that simply confirms what I already suspected–we’re kindred spirits. Like literary peas in a bookish pod. Like two ducks in an inky ocean of words. Like two psychic penguins who  … well, you’ll see for yourself.

Here’s her Twitter bio:

“Children’s book editor at Roaring Brook Press, a Broadway music lover, and a dog fanatic.”

What more do you need than that, right?

But here at OPB we under-​promise and over-​deliver, so let me offer up four more facts that might just confirm how you too are (quite likely) kindred spirits with Emily to some degree.

Favorite coffeehouse beverage: A cappuccino with cinnamon on top.

Favorite snack: Anything with chocolate…but no raisins. Never raisins.

Favorite childhood book: I had many but I was particularly fond of The Story of Ferdinand and The Little Prince.

Coolest talent not enough people know about: I can wiggle my ears.

So now that we’re all pals here, let’s get to that OPB interview and learn more about why authors love working with Emily. And perhaps, too, we’ll get to the heart of that anti-​raisin thing!

Roaring Brook Website: www.us.macmillan.com/publishers/roaring-brook-press
Facebook: www.facebook.com/emily.feinberg.3
Twitter: @EmilyFeinberg

RVC: What type of childhood did you have, and how did it prepare you for a career as a kidlit editor?

EF: I was raised by a mother who was a librarian, so my brother and I spent tons of time in the library. The children’s room was often our babysitter. I wouldn’t call myself a huge reader as a child, at least not in a traditional sense. I was never much for novels but I would become obsessed with biographies of real people, reading Helen Keller’s story over and over again, or any book I could find on Nadia Comaneci or gymnastics. I also loved David Macaulay’s The Way Things Work.

In elementary school, I thought I wasn’t really a reader but that was just because I wasn’t reading what other people were reading. I was reading all the time, though. As I got older, in junior high and high school, I grew to like fiction more but spent most of my time reading The X‑Files fan fiction. Pages and pages. Probably tens of thousands of pages. So I guess I was a reader. We always had books in the house, always had older relatives asking us what we were reading, occasionally bribing us with a dollar for a book report. Now, I read a lot more traditional books for my job but as an editor tend to like less traditional books as well as nonfiction.See the source image

RVC: What about The X‑Files fan fiction drew you in so powerfully?

EF: For me, The X‑Files was always about character and storytelling. The mysteries were cool, and of course the aliens and conspiracies, but ultimately it was Mulder and Scully and their relationship that drove the show. I always loved TV more than movies because you could invest in the characters more deeply and for a longer period of time. It’s not over in two hours. I think fan fiction just extends that even longer. I could finish an episode and within a day or two, there would be stories online extending it. I always thought that was really cool.

RVC: At what point during your master’s degree program in Children’s and Adolescent Literature at Simmons College did you realize your future was in publishing?

EF: I actually knew I wanted to be an editor going into grad school and picked the Simmons program because I had heard great things about the faculty.

RVC: How did you know you wanted to be an editor? What were the signs?

EF: In high school I would go over my friends’ papers for them and help them form better sentences. In return, they’d explain math to me. At one point in high school, my mom and I took a trip to San Francisco (we lived in LA county) to visit a friend of hers who owned a small publishing house in Berkeley. He showed us around and I asked a million questions but still didn’t really know I wanted to be an editor. I remember just liking the atmosphere at the publishing house. I finished grad school at Simmons and worried I’d never break into the industry, which is super competitive, especially on the editorial side, so I took the LSATs. I would have gone to law school but a friend said to me “you’ll hate it–you need to do something more creative.” And for some reason that really stuck. So I kept trying to get into publishing and eventually it worked out.

RVC: It seems that some NY editors hide from authors, but you do the opposite. You’re active on the SCBWI scene, and you do cool things like picture book webinars for Kidlit411. Sure, you’re networking and all that, but as a creative, what do you get out of these activities? In what way(s) do they feed you?

EF: Well, honestly, publishing isn’t the most lucrative business to work in and participating in SCBWI conferences and webinars helps me make ends meet. I do enjoy meeting people at the conferences, though, and it helps me stay fresh and updated on industry conversations.

RVC: What do you see as the current trend(s) in the picture book world?

EF: We talk about this a bit at Roaring Brook. I think right now we’re seeing a strong response to or current political climate, whether its books teaching empathy, nonfiction teaching civics and government, or books about strong girls and women. That makes sense to me, especially with kids books. You don’t want to be didactic but I think writers and illustrators right now, along with editors, want to give kids the tools they need to understand what’s happening around them.

Also, unicorns.

RVC: What’s the most common misconception about the life/​work of a NY kidlit editor?

EF: One thing I think about a lot is what writers and editors have in common. People maybe don’t know that editors also face a lot of rejection and you have to develop really thick skin. If I’m going to take a book to acquisitions meeting, sit in front of 30 people, and try to convince them to invest in it, in the author, in the illustrator, my heart is tied up in that, too. Children’s books have a long lead time. It takes around 2–2.5 years to make a picture book from acquisition to publication, and I certainly don’t want to spend two years on a project I don’t absolutely love. But with all that comes some in-​house pressure that I’m not sure is ever really communicated to the author.

RVC: What does your editorial process look like?

EF: I’m a visual person so I try to book map everything so I can see where the page turns are, where text needs to be cut, where the illustration needs to lead. I think authors I work with would say there’s a lot of back and forth and that’s mostly because I’m not a fast editor. Sometimes something will occur to me later than it should.

RVC: It’s hard to have a 1:1 with an editor without the Big Questions All Aspiring Authors Want Answers To. So here’s one. What’s the most common dealbreaker you see with pretty good picture book manuscripts that you ultimately still say “Thanks but no thanks!” to?

EF: It’s different with each case. Sometimes a manuscript is so beautifully written and I really want to take it on but there’s just no market for it yet. Sometimes the story is strong and the writing is good but it just feels too familiar. Sometimes everything is great (especially with nonfiction) but the storytelling doesn’t have a fresh angle or the market is too saturated.

RVC: And one more of those Big Questions. What’s on your PB Wish List for 2019?

EF: This question is so hard. I’m looking for a little more middle grade, actually. Anything comparable to Karen Cushman. For picture books, always exploratory subjects. The other day I was thinking it might be cool to have a book exploring theories of time travel–how viable they are, how one would do it, why they wouldn’t be able to do it.

RVC: I’ve got to ask. What’s your deal with raisins? Inquiring minds DO want to know. 🙂

EF: They’re disgusting and an abomination. They sneak their way into cookies, you think they’re chocolate chips, but they’re not,  and they ruin your cookie-​eating experience.

RVC: Speed round. Ready? Here we go! James Bond or Jason Bourne?

EF: Dana Scully.

RVC: Best place in NYC to get a truly yum-​tastic cappuccino?

EF: Did you mean “martini”? Rose’s in Brooklyn.

RVC: Most underappreciated yet awesome Broadway musical?

EF: Guys and Dolls.

RVC: Last non-​Roaring Brook picture book that just blew you away.

EF: A Big Mooncake for Little Star by Grace Lin. I bought it, read it out loud to my mother because I needed her to understand the brilliance, and read it about once a week. I love it.

RVC: Which forthcoming Roaring Brook title of yours is going to blow away readers the most?

rsz_9781250155337EF: It’s so hard to choose. Two books coming out around the time of this interview that I’m SO proud of are Just Right: Searching for the Goldilocks Planet, a gorgeously written and illustrated nonfiction picture book about exoplanets, and How to Walk An Ant, about a girl who shows the reader how to leash up and walk ants–both out this winter!

RVC: If Yoda were one of your authors, what’s the endorsement he’d give you?

EF: Good snacks, she has.

RVC: Thanks so much, Emily!

Editor Interview: Kait Feldmann (Arthur A. Levine/​Scholastic)

On By Only Picture BooksIn Editor Interviews

The final Industry Insider interview for 2018 is with Kait Feldmann. And not to toot my own OPB horn here, but the following is SO GOOD that it’s totally worth sending out on Xmas eve. Feel free to tuck this post under your tree and wait to open it until Xmas day, if you want! 

That being said–here are 11 fun facts about Kait to get us started! Why 11 and not 10? Because at OPB, you always get a little extra literary love. Plus there’s always the This is Spinal Tap connection to be enjoyed.

  1. Her fancy title? “Editor at Arthur A. Levine Books, an imprint of Scholastic.”
  2. How many n’s in “Feldmann”? Two.
  3. When did she join Scholastic? May 2014.
  4. She assisted on Newbery Honor-​winner Echo by Pam Muñoz Ryan, The Marvels by Brian Selznick, and The Tales of Beedle the Bard: The Illustrated Edition by J.K. Rowling, illustrated by Lisbeth Zwerger.
  5. “Book hoarder, insomniac, and lover of all things sloth.”
  6. She’s a “proud hapa.”
  7. Sometimes wishes “referral” were spelled “refferrall.” (Ryan’s note: Don’t we all?)
  8. What does Kait yearn for in a manuscript? “Meaningful, character-​driven stories with humor and heart.”
  9. Also “likes a little whimsy, light layers of magic.” (Ryan’s note: Witness the Potterhead Q&A exchange below! And note what Kait’s both reading and holding in the picture above!)
  10. Wants to see more picture books featuring kids of color.
  11. Submission WARNING from Kait! “I have a stone-​cold heart the size of a pea and am not moved by sweeping texts that explore ideas like love, family, tradition, etc., through a glimpse into many different kinds of experiences. Instead, I prefer to see specific narratives that focus on a particular character’s emotional journey. Universal through the specific!”

Arthur A. Levine website: www.arthuralevinebooks.com
Personal Website: www.kaitfeldmann.com
Twitter: www.twitter.com/kaitfeldmann
Tumblr: www.scattershotsilly.tumblr.com
Manuscript Wish List: www.manuscriptwishlist.com/mswl-post/kait-feldmann/

RVC: How did you first get involved with the publishing world?

KF: My first foray into publishing was an internship with Scholastic, which was offered after providing my mom (children’s book author Lisa Yee)  notes on Warp Speed that she passed along to her editor, Arthur Levine. He liked what I had to say and asked me to intern for him. I hadn’t considered an editorial career before, but that experience ignited my passion, and I spent the rest of my college years taking on any kind of book-​related work I could, interning remotely, assisting a local independent publisher, freelance editing, and selling fine writing pens in Vroman’s stationery department where I’d sneakily pretend to be a bookseller on the side.

RVC: So in your current editorial position at Arthur A. Levine Books, you’re primarily looking to acquire picture books and graphic novels. What appeals to you most about these ways of telling stories? 

KF: Images bring something to a story that I think, when done right, can really enhance the world of words. And you can play with story in the book format in a way you simply can’t do in another medium. A great example is Tillie Walden’s I Love This Part, which I might call a middle-​grade picture book. It follows two girls through their relationship and break up in glimpses—each spread a different scene from their love story, not necessarily in order. Tillie only uses two colors, but she plays with them thoughtfully, saturating scenes of affection with purple and going grayscale in times of turmoil. She also plays with proportion and surrealism in a way that you’re just going to have to see for yourself…some things words can’t properly express.

RVC: Any advice on how to make this type of magic happen?

KF: Read widely. Really understand the ins and outs of the picture book form, know how to pace and paginate a story, study the way art is composed (notice the room left for text; the difference between spots, single pages, and full-​bleed spreads…). This is important even if you’re a writer only! Make it a habit to browse your library or bookstore every month or so to get a feel for what’s out there. In a submission, I can tell who does this and who doesn’t.

RVC: Plenty of relatively competent submissions hit your desk daily, I’m sure. In fact, just tell us. What’s an average week for you? How many new submissions come at you?

KF: It fluctuates depending on a number of factors, including whether I’ve been to a conference recently and how responsive I’ve been to agents (I try to be speedy! The catch is that the quicker I respond, the more submissions I get—it creates a sort of Hydra effect that’s quite stressful!).

Taking a look at a random week, I see: six agented submissions (three are international—already published but looking for a North American/​English-​language publisher), and 72 unagented submissions. 

RVC: How can you tell when writers haven’t done their homework for a submission? What’s the giveaway?

KF: Well, there’s the cosmetic stuff—I get a lot of “Dear Editorial Department,” “To Whom It May Concern,” or “Dear Kate Feldman” (note both first/​last misspelled). It’s not an automatic rejection if you have a generic or misspelled salutation, but since it’s your VERY FIRST impression, it does stand out…in a bad way.

Then there’s the pitch. My acquisition profile is easily Googleable, as are most editors’ and agents’. My bailiwick is picture books and graphic novels but I get a lot of MG/​YA novel submissions that are clearly copy-​pasted from a template. I’m also very vocal and specific about publishing diverse books and creators, yet I get a number of queries that either ignore that or say “I know you’re interested in diversity so my book might not be for you but I’m going to try anyway.” What? No! That’s almost worse than not doing your homework. It’s taking the time to do your homework wrong and turning it in anyway.

Query letters are like cover letters—if you want to stand out you need to personalize each one you send to show why you are a great fit for that position. In a way…you are applying for a job. There’s a lot of work ahead, so show that you’re serious and have thought it through.

RVC: When a submission hits your desk and you’re intrigued, do you Google the author? If so, what are you looking for?

KF: Yup, I’m a Googler. I don’t always know what I’m looking for—I guess just a broader sense of who the person is. What they like. What they stand for. How active they are in the book community. And of course, any red flags! It hasn’t happened often, but there were a few instances where I came across a Tweet and thought ohhhh…yeah, we won’t get along.

RVC: So speaking of getting along … we first met at the SCBWI conference in Orlando this past June. What do you get out of being a speaker at events like that?

KF: I love discussing craft and publishing and find that I learn and grow from my experiences at writers conferences, too. And of course, I always hope to make lasting connections. One of the first authors I signed, the indomitable Aida Salazar, is someone I met at SCBWI LA. My colleague Nick Thomas had a critique with her and passed along her work. We both fell so hard for her writing that we offered a two-​book deal right away. Her debut novel, The Moon Within (which Nick edited), comes out February 26, 2019 and her picture book, Jovita Wears Pants: The Story of a Revolutionary Fighter (that one’s mine!) follows in 2020.

RVC: Every editor and agent I speak with has a conference horror story or two–they were cornered in a bathroom stall, or someone slid 500 pages of a YA werefox thriller under their hotel door … three pages at a time … at 2 a.m. in the morning.

What’s YOUR conference-​related writer horror story?

KF: Omg, can anyone beat the 2 a.m. page slide? Imagine the editor sitting on the other side, reading in suspense, waiting for the next pages to follow…(kidding—I’m sure that’s NOT what happened and don’t encourage that behavior).

Mine is the time I was talking to an author at a bar and a man asked to join us—he was friendly but very focused on me, wanted to know all about my interests outside of publishing. It didn’t read as flirtatious but it was clear he had an agenda, and that shifted the dynamic of the conversation in an uncomfortable way. A month or so later I’d forgotten all about it when I received a big box packed with my favorite things…and at the very bottom, a manuscript. From Bar Guy. It was completely inappropriate, and under Scholastic’s Code of Ethics, also considered a bribe.

RVC: That’s crazy. And speaking of crazy, here’s a semi-​popular belief among writers: Editor’s don’t edit much anymore–they primarily just acquire (or more often, not!). While that might be true in some book areas, I don’t find that as valid to say about picture book editors.

How much time do you put in on any given picture book manuscript? How much before the sale is made? How much after?

KF: Is that true?? Perhaps in some circles, but that’s not how I was trained, and it’s not how I work! I typically schedule picture books to publish two years out from when I sign them, minimum! We go through rounds and rounds and rounds and rounds of editing. It really varies depending on the book and the creator and our working style—I try to adapt to provide what each creator needs from me, but sometimes neither of us knows what that looks like until we’ve taken a few different tacks!

There’s one creator who I approached cold and asked to develop a project from scratch—we worked for ten months on creating a story I could share with my acquisition team—but all that time working together and figuring out our style meant that by the time we officially signed it up we were flying.

RVC: What’s the most common misconception about being a picture book editor? What do authors–and possibly even agents–have wrong?

KF: The best way to make a children’s book editor bristle is to say “Oh how cute! You edit picture books? That must be so easy!” But I’m sure your readers know well…IT ISN’T EASY!

The one thing that bothers me even more, however, is people who underestimate the picture book audience. First of all, we should be writing UP to kids, not down. Kids are so smart, emotionally and intellectually, and they know instantly when their worth is being devalued. Second, picture books are not just for kids. They’re for anyone who loves a good story!

RVC: Alright–it’s time for the Speed Round! Go! What zoo animal deserves more picture book coverage?

KF: I’m very happy that sloths are finally having their moment, but they deserve moooooore!!!

RVC: You semi-​frequently tweet about amazing workplace discoveries. The office copier’s ability to corner staple. The “move to folder” dropdown in Outlook. What’s the latest breakthrough?

KF: The secret tunnel that leads to a cupcake store. You think I’m kidding.

RVC: Grammar gaff that drives you the most bonkers?

KF: Er…I’m not the bestest at grammar myself.

RVC: You’ve openly confessed to being a Potterhead. Spill the (Bertie Bott’s Every Flavour) beans. Most underappreciated character?

KF: Angelina Johnson.

RVC: Three current picture book authors who are setting/​raising the bar?

KF: Jessica Love (Julián Is a Mermaid); Minh Lê (Drawn Together, illustrated by Dan Santat); Tillie Walden (I Love This Part).

RVC: The most unforgivable thing in a picture book submission is …

KF: Getting the person’s name wrong!

RVC: What would like to see written on your literary tombstone?

KF: Here lies Kait, who died as she lived, under a pile of books.

RVC: Thanks so much, Kait. What a way to wrap up the first year of OPB! Thanks!!

Editor Interview: Marilyn Brigham (Two Lions/​Amazon Publishing)

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It’s my pleasure to announce that the November 2018 Industry Insider interview is with editor Marilyn Brigham of Two Lions/​Amazon Publishing. I’ve been a fan of Two Lions for some time now, so it’s a real treat to get the inside story on what makes the magic work so well there.

Here’s a bit about Marilyn:

In her 13+ years in the children’s book industry, Marilyn has edited 100+ trade children’s books, including picture books, chapter books, middle grade fiction, young adult fiction, and nonfiction. Some of her noteworthy titles include the Duck and Hippo Series by Jonathan London, illustrated by Andrew Joyner; the Amazon bestseller Goodnight, Little Monster and its sequels by Helen Ketteman, illustrated by Bonnie Leick; It’s Not Jack and the Beanstalk by Josh Funk, illustrated by Edwardian Taylor; and Ralph Tells a Story by Abby Hanlon.

But Marilyn’s also a writer–she’s the author of the board book Swim!, illustrated by Eric Velasquez, as well as the educational title Dik-​Dik, part of the Even Weirder and Cuter Series from Bearport Publishing.

So let’s have Marilyn put that editing and writing acumen to good use with some OPB interview goodness. Here we go!

Amazon publishing website: www.amazonpublishing.amazon.com
Twitter: @MarilynBrigham

RVC: So how does someone from Syracuse University who got a proper degree in journalism manage to end up in the kidlit business? 

MG: Well, I thought I was going to get a magazine job after graduation, but I’m glad that I found myself at a book publisher instead! I started my career as an intern in the reference department at Marshall Cavendish, and I got lucky when an editorial assistant job opened up at the company a couple months later. It was a truly special place to work. The office was an old Georgian mansion in Westchester County, NY, filled with secret passageways and quirky offices, and I worked with an amazing team. I learned so much about the business of publishing and editing in general during my time there. As an assistant, I worked on the trade children’s book imprint as well as nonfiction series for the school and library market, and I ultimately worked up to editor in the Marshall Cavendish Children’s Books imprint.

I’m a lover of words, as are many of my closest friends, and I was obsessed with reading as a kid, so it’s not too surprising that I ended up working with books.

RVC: What’s the best thing about being in the kidlit business?

MG: Definitely the people! The KidLit community is full of so many creative and inspiring people (authors, illustrators, editors, marketing and PR folks, designers, the list goes on). I also love that it’s a very supportive industry and that in general, the KidLit community helps build up one another and celebrate everyone’s successes. Plus, there’s something inherently special about people who spend their days thinking about how we can enrich the lives of children through storytelling. I feel it when I go to conferences, such as ALA (American Library Association) or SCBWI (Society of Children’s Book Writers & Illustrators), and get to be surrounded by these people—my people!

We recently exhibited at ALA Annual in New Orleans, and the enthusiasm that the librarians had for our authors was such a good reminder of why we do what we do. One librarian started crying when she met our author Jonathan London, because she had shared so many of his books over the years with her own child. It was such a sweet moment!

RVC: Unlike many people in publishing, you’re an author, too–your board book, Swim!, came out in 2012, and your educational title, Dik-​Dik, came out in 2017. Are you a writer who edits, or an editor who writes? 

MG: I’d love to say I’m a writer who edits, but I don’t think I spend nearly as much time writing as I should! I really envy my authors for their discipline. I find it much easier to stay laser-​focused on work when I’m on the editing side of the table. (Yes, writers, the struggle is real!)

But no matter which side of the table I’m on, I know I am so lucky to be able to do this work for a living.

RVC: LinkedIn tells me that you have “a lengthy (digital) stack of half-​finished manuscripts” that you dig into whenever you can. What would the editor side of you say to the writer side of you in regards to the unpublished picture book manuscripts in that digital stack? And what about the picture book manuscripts you’ve already published?

MG: She would say, keep going! And write it before someone else does! While it’s definitely important sometimes to put a manuscript aside for a while and let it marinate, you also can’t leave it there forever. With picture books especially, I’ve seen that ideas can catch on all at once—I’ll suddenly get multiple picture book submissions on the same topic. It’s so weird how that happens!

In terms of the books I’ve published, of course I can’t help thinking about what I might have changed (editors die hard!), but I really try not to. It’s thrilling to see my name in print, and I don’t want to argue with it!

RVC: Could you share the connection between Marshall Cavendish Children’s Books and Two Lions, which just so happens to mirror your own career path?

MG: I was working at Marshall Cavendish Children’s Books when Amazon acquired some of their titles and backlist in 2012. It was exciting to go on the journey along with the authors and illustrators from the Marshall Cavendish list. For me, it was also an amazing opportunity to help shape the vision of what is now the Two Lions imprint. We came up with the Two Lions name as a way to tie together the great history of our backlist and our new future as part of Amazon Publishing. The name was also a nod to “Patience and Fortitude,” the two lions who stand proudly in front of the New York Public Library.

As an editor, it’s given me a special thrill to see some of the Marshall Cavendish books, such as What If Everybody Did That? by Ellen Javernick, illustrated by Colleen Madden, and Goodnight, Little Monster, by Helen Ketteman, illustrated by Bonnie Leick, reach an even wider audience at Amazon Publishing and become bestsellers years after their original publications. In fact, we’ve published sequels to both of those titles and now have a third book in each series still to come. This is in addition to so many great new titles and series that have been homegrown in the Two Lions imprint.

We’ve also had a lot of fun over the years trying out new programs to promote our books at Two Lions. One year, we did kid book review videos and had kids read our books and then talk about what they liked (and in some cases, how they’d give the books “ten million bajillion stars”!). In 2019, we’re working on animated trailers for all of our new titles—it’s a blast to see our characters coming alive on the screen!

RVC: What’s different about working at Two Lions?  What does being connected to the 800 lb. sales gorilla (Amazon) do for you?

MG: I’ve had the unique experience of coming from a very traditional publishing background and then going into a new and innovative publishing company. Working at Two Lions challenges me to constantly rethink my own biases and helps me find new ways to be inventive within the industry. We have a lot of freedom to bring new ideas to the table, and there’s an openness and encouragement to trying new things.

But one of the things I love most about working at Two Lions is the emphasis that we place on author and illustrator happiness. We see authors and illustrators as our customers, and we spend a lot of time thinking about them, developing our relationships with them, and soliciting their feedback (and I’ve seen real changes happen as a result). I’ve also had the opportunity to dip my toes into the creation of other content for kids, including enhanced eBooks and short stories for an app, which has helped expand my own skillset.

RVC: It seems as if Two Lions is making more of an effort to acquire and translate non-​English work. How does that shift relate to the growing kidlit interest in diversity and Own Voices? How conscientious of that are you when you’re deciding whether or not to champion a picture book submission?

MG: We’re very excited to be getting into the world of picture-​book translation! Amazon Publishing already has a long history of bringing translated works from around the world to the United States with our imprint, Amazon Crossing, and it’s a unique opportunity for me to help build on that legacy with children’s books from around the globe. I recently signed up my first book, Spiky, written and illustrated by Ilaria Guarducci and translated by Laura Watkinson. The book hails from Italy, where it was shortlisted for a picture book award. It’s about an evil forest creature named Spiky whose body is covered in spikes. When Spiky suddenly loses his spikes, he must learn what it means to be a friend. Spanish, French, Chinese, and Korean rights to the book have also been sold, which I think speaks to the universal message of the book. But I also love how the story has a distinctly Italian feel to it as well, and we’ve retained some of the small Italian details in the art, such as an Italian newspaper, as something for kids to discover on their own.

I think the timing of our picture books in translation couldn’t be better with the focus on diversity and #OwnVoices in KidLit. There are so many elements regarding diversity to consider—race, nationality, sexuality, disability—and I think that non-​American perspectives are also so important to include. As corny as it sounds, the kids really are our future, and giving them diverse perspectives is so vital to helping them become better global citizens. It’s exciting that we’re at a moment in history when diverse perspectives and characters are being championed and becoming bestsellers. Diversity is definitely on my mind when considering acquisitions, as well as through the editing and art creation process. And I still have so much more to learn in this area, too!

RVC: The other day, you tweeted praise for Leila Sales’ Publisher’s Weekly article “What Authors and Editors Wish They Could Say to One Another.” I came across that piece as well and found it both honest and useful. But what’s one more thing you’d add to the list that editors wish they could just say (scream?) at authors?

MG: I would add: Picture books are a long game. It’s easy to feel impatient and frustrated as the pieces come together. Plus, holiday and seasonal timing can be so important. I want my authors to know that I get antsy for the pub dates to come, too! The best thing you can do while you wait is to keep creating.

(And I promise that one day you will blink, and the pub date will be here!)

RVC: What kinds of picture books do you think the marketplace (and maybe Two Lions specifically?) is missing?

MG: I think it’s always difficult to find picture books that touch on sensitive, emotional topics (for example, death), while also handling the subject matter in a way that’s not overly sentimental or heavy handed. There are a lot of trying issues that kids face, too, and I’d love to see more picture books that address difficult topics.

One of the books I had the pleasure to work on was Hero Dad, written by Melinda Hardin and illustrated by Bryan Langdo. In the book, a little boy compares his dad, who is in the military, to a superhero. Using minimal text and focused images, the author and illustrator created such a strong, heart-​warming, and accessible book for kids. The book has also been featured in commercials for the Wounded Warrior Project, which has been very rewarding to see.

We followed it up with Hero Mom, because of course moms are superheroes too! That book featured a diverse group of kids and showed the many jobs their moms do in the military and why they are like superheroes.

RVC: Want to dish on a few of your favorite upcoming projects?

MG: Always! I’m super excited about a few debut authors I have coming in 2019. The first is Lauren H. Kerstein with her book Rosie the Dragon and Charlie Make Waves, illustrated by Nate Wragg, which is a funny summertime romp about a boy who is teaching his pet dragon to swim. The second is Lisa Robinson, who has two titles forthcoming with Two Lions: Pirates Don’t Go To Kindergarten!, illustrated by Eda Kaban, a first-​day-​of-​kindergarten story featuring a pirate-​loving little girl who makes her former preschool teacher walk the plank; and Pippa’s Night Parade, illustrated by Lucy Fleming, about a little girl with a wild imagination who has to tame the creatures that are coming out of her storybooks each night.

Additionally, author Joy Jordan-​Lake, who is published on Amazon Publishing’s Lake Union imprint, has her first picture book to come with Two Lions: A Crazy-​Much Love, illustrated by Sonia Sánchez, a heartfelt and deeply personal story about a parent’s love for her adopted child. These authors are a talented bunch, and I can’t wait to introduce them to readers!

RVC: So it’s time for the Speed Round! Ready … GO! Best place in NYC to take a literary agent or Two Lions author for a slice of pizza?

MG: I’d probably opt for wood-​fired in this scenario and have to give a shout-​out to PizzArte, which is right near my office and SO good.

RVC: “If I never got into writing or editing, I’d instead be ________”

MG: In a career related to animals, for sure. Maybe a veterinarian. Biology was always my favorite area of science, and I have a deep love for animals. Plus, I don’t get grossed out too easily.

(Just keep bees far, far away from me, and we’ll be good!)

RVC: If you could sing one song–and one song only–on American Idol, what would it be?

MG: Hmm, probably something old and classic, like “You’ve Got a Friend” by Carol King.

(P.S. I don’t think I’d win, though!)

RVC: The #1 reason you turn down a picture book manuscript submission?

MG: It’s not a fit with our publishing program. At Two Lions we’re focused on books that have both commercial and literary appeal, and that have well-​developed story arcs and character arcs. We also look for holiday and seasonal-​themed books.

Our list is relatively small, so if we already have something similar on our list, we’ll likely have to pass. There are a lot of great books out there that deserve to be published but don’t necessarily fit for us.

RVC: Favorite under-​appreciated picture book?

MG: Well, it’s not really under-​appreciated, but I think Good Night, Gorilla by Peggy Rathmann is one of the best picture books of all time! I actually never read it until I had my son, but it’s a little piece of genius! So if you haven’t yet read it, go do it. Now.

RVC: What makes a Two Lions picture book a Two Lions picture book?

MG: It’s a book that you want to hug! And then read again.

RVC: Thanks so much, Marilyn!

Editor Interview: Christina Pulles (Sterling Publishing)

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The October 2018 Industry Insider interview is with Christina Pulles, Executive Editor at Sterling Children’s Books.

By way of introduction, here’s a quick bio snippet on Christina:

Christina Pulles joined Sterling Children’s Books in June 2015, and before that worked at Simon & Schuster’s Simon Spotlight imprint. Realistic middle grade holds a soft spot in her heart, but she also loves working on everything from board books to fiction and nonfiction picture books. Originally from the Chicago area, she now reads, runs, bakes, and eats in Brooklyn with her husband.

Sterling Website: www.sterlingpublishing.com
Twitter: twitter.com/ChristinaPulles

RVC: Like most in the writing/​publishing biz, you were a mega-​reader as a kid. But you’ve said that it was only in high school that you first started thinking about being a book editor. How did that idea come about? And what specifically appealed to you about that job?

CP: I became an editor for my high school newspaper, and I loved coming up with ideas for stories and writing them or editing them, but it just didn’t feel like exactly what I wanted to do, both the writing and the journalism parts. I don’t know how exactly I came to the realization that there were editors for books, too, but once I did I knew that was what I wanted to do—to sit quietly and read books all day (which, of course, is not at all what my job is like).

RVC: So we’re both Chicago natives! I started my writing career while doing my undergrad at Northern Illinois University, and you got your first publishing world job in the Windy City, too–at the book distributor Independent Publishers Group (IPG). What did you do there, and what did you learn that helped you be a more successful editor down the road?

CP: I absolutely loved working at IPG. I was a Sales Associate there, first assisting our B&N rep and then expanding to work on other national accounts. Seeing how the buyers’ estimates would change based on what materials we had available to show them helped me understand how important it is to always get my Sales team the materials they need to give each book its best shot.

RVC: After a stint at Simon & Schuster’s Spotlight imprint, you moved to Sterling Publishing, a mid-​sized New York publisher. It’s also one of the few picture book publishers that still allow unsolicited, unagented submissions, right? What are some of the WOW-​level slush successes you’ve witnessed?

CP: Before my time at Sterling, another editor, Zaneta Jung, found Josh Funk’s amazing Lady Pancake & Sir French Toast in our slush pile, though he got an agent and signed other deals soon after. One of my favorite upcoming projects came in as an unagented, snail-​mail submission: When Grandma Gives You a Lemon Tree by Jamie L. B. Deenihan.

RVC: Jamie’s book is terrific. Let’s circle back on that in a moment. (She and I are pals, plus OPB just interviewed her agent, Linda Camacho, two months back. Small world, huh?)

But talk a bit more about how the acquisition process works at Sterling. What departments are involved? How much autonomy do editors have? What’s the typical time frame for a submission that makes it all the way through?

CP: It can take a very long time, unfortunately—definitely up to a few months! Because we’re a smaller company, we get the whole team involved in the process, all the way up to our President. This ends up being a great thing, though, as everyone gets excited about a book right from the start.

RVC: So you’ve bought two picture books from Jamie now–When Grandma Gives You a Lemon Tree and When Grandpa Gives You a Toolbox.  What kind of pitch did you make to your team for those manuscripts? Was it all about comps (competing titles) and P&Ls (profit and loss estimates), language use, story elements, an agent’s charisma, or … ? What works to make the magic happen and the deal to emerge?

CP: It was a combination of all of those things! I create a memo to share with the team that includes a positioning statement (a very quick line about what a book is and why someone would want to buy it), a brief description of the story, an author bio, and comp titles. The sales team reviews all of that information to determine how many copies they think they can sell to their accounts. Then we plug those numbers into our P&L to see if the project will make a profit.

I think Jamie’s books were a particularly easy sell because of both the grandparent angle—people can buy them for Grandparents’ Day, Mother’s Day, and Father’s Day—and the message about putting down electronics, getting outdoors, and making something special.

RVC: That’s a great message for sure. It gets me wondering just how aware writers are about built-​in hooks and the reasons editors really take on a manuscript. Now you recently participated in a critique opportunity for picture book writers via Inked Voices which included conversations about stories and the pitches. What are the most common errors you find in picture book submissions? In queries/​pitches/​cover letters? 

CP: I got to read some great projects in my Inked Voices session, and this feedback doesn’t necessarily apply to those!

With submissions in general, I see a lot of rhyming text that doesn’t work. If you’re going to write in rhyme, read your text aloud constantly to see if it’s scanning properly. Keep in mind that other people in different regions or countries may not pronounce things the same way you do. Try to choose your words based on more than the fact that they rhyme with the last word of the previous line—they should fit naturally into the story, too.

In pitch letters, we get all kinds of mistakes in terms of who the manuscripts are being submitted to! Do your research about an editor before pitching them, and make sure the house actually publishes books like the one you’re submitting. Not every book has to have a hook as specific as a grandparent hook—maybe the hook of your manuscript is that it deals with emotional intelligence, or it’s connected to STEAM in some way, or it illustrates a great friendship. Whatever stands out about your manuscript, make sure to include that in your cover letter!

RVC: I feel your pain. Despite this being the OnlyPictureBooks blog, I still get unsolicited YA and adult books for review. One time, I even got a business how-​to book. Ugh!

This all gets me thinking about another issue writers sometimes fret over–the importance of an author platform. I get it! Part of why I’m doing OPB is to grow my platform in the kidlit world. I also do it because OPB is fun, interesting, educational, and full of good literary karma for all involved, as you’ll soon find.

So for you and for Sterling, on a scale of 1 (least) to 10 (most), how important is it that a potential picture book author has a platform? Has that level of importance changed over the years? Do you anticipate it changing in the future?

CP:  I do think it’s becoming more and more important—I would say it’s moved from a 5 to a 6 in the past few years. Authors that have a big social media presence are often able to build up hype for their books, and that leads to sales. A platform doesn’t have to be all about social media (which I’m not great at, anyway); having a nice website and being able to set up school visits and events on your own are also huge selling points for a picture book author.

RVC: What’s the most exciting trend you’re seeing in picture books now?

CP: I’m excited by two things: the sophistication of some recent picture books like A Different Pond by Bao Phi and How to Make Friends with a Ghost by Rebecca Green, and the inclusivity of books like The Day You Begin by Jacqueline Woodson and Rafael López and All Are Welcome by Alexandra Penfold and Suzanne Kaufman. I don’t think either of these things should be trends; they’re recognizing children for what they’re capable of understanding and they should inform how we approach children’s books in general.

RVC: Okay, it’s time for the Speed Round. GO! Which videos are more likely to suck you into the time-​wasting internet void–kittens or baby pandas?

CP: Baby pandas. I’m not a cat person (that’s relevant to my submission tastes, too!).

RVC: Best place to get cupcakes in Brooklyn?

CP: It’s not in Brooklyn, but Molly’s Cupcakes in the West Village is my favorite. Their original location is in Chicago.

RVC: Best Chicago pizza?

CP: I was raised on Lou Malnati’s. My husband hasn’t even tried any of the other places yet.

RVC: My brother LOVES Lou Malnati’s, too. Next question, though–what’s the coolest literary pilgrimage you’ve taken?

CP: I went to Prince Edward Island on my honeymoon, and it really was everything I hoped—we saw the Green Gables house, ate amazing seafood, biked along the rocky red coast, and had dinner in Charlottetown.

RVC: Picture book character you’d most want to meet in real life?

CP: The mouse from If You Give a Mouse a Cookie.

RVC: What never-​before-​authored-​anything celebrity do you think would write the best picture book?

CP: I’m obsessed with Jane the Virgin and Gina Rodriguez, and I think a picture book either from Gina or from the character of Jane would be a lot of fun! She’s a romance writer on the show and S&S published “her” book last year.

RVC: Best picture book published in the last year that too few people are talking about?

CP: Two of my own books, Magnolia Mudd and the Super Jumptastic Launcher Deluxe by Katey Howes and Valerio Fabbretti and Help Find Frank by Anne Bollman are so charming and fun, and I’d love to see them get more attention!

On the non-​Sterling side, I’ve been in love with All the Way to Havana by Margarita Engle and Mike Curato since it came out last year, and haven’t heard as much about it as I would have thought.

RVC: Three words that authors you’ve worked with will say about their experiences with you and Sterling.

CP: Attentive, enthusiastic, and innovative—I hope!

RVC: Thanks a ton, Christina! 

Freelance Editor Interview: Mary Kole

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This month’s Industry Insider interview is with freelance editor and book consultant Mary Kole. I know her from Way Back When because she was the then-​assistant to my then-​literary agent, and in that role, Mary Kole provided solid feedback and advice on some of my kidlit projects.

She’s perhaps the ultimate Industry Insider because she’s done such a wide range of things in the world of writing and publishing. She earned an English and Theatre BA at Santa Clara University, then began a career freelance writing for newspapers and magazines, including the Los Angeles Times. While pursuing her MFA in Creative Writing at the University of San Francisco, she interned at her first literary agency. Upon completing her degree and securing representation for her own writing, she interned in the children’s editorial department at Chronicle Books in San Francisco.

She went on to read for the Andrea Brown Literary Agency (that’s where I first ran across her!), one of the oldest and most prestigious children’s book literary agencies in America. Three and a half happy years there as an Associate Agent gave her a solid foundation in the business and cemented her love for all things children’s literature. She then became a Senior Literary Manager and founder of the children’s book department at Movable Type Management in New York City. In 2013, she left to finally pursue her first love, editorial work, full time.

“My work directly with writers had always been my favorite part of agenting,” she admits, “so it wasn’t a tough decision to make.”

Who better, then, to share industry wisdom and insight about the picture book world with the OPB family?

Website: www.marykole.com
Website: www.KidLit.com
Facebook: www.facebook.com/kidlit
Twitter: twitter.com/kid_lit

RVC: Most people probably know you as the dynamo behind Kidlit.com and/​or the author of Writing Irresistible Kidlit (one of the better books on writing for authors of any genre). How did those projects come about?

MK: Thanks! I started reading for a literary agency in 2008, while I was doing my MFA. There were so many easily avoidable mistakes in the slush, and I found the whole publishing process so fascinating, that I decided to start a blog about it. Kidlit has been my platform to talk about writing and publishing ever since. It grew into a more organized book in 2013, and I challenged myself to create an entire writing reference guide from scratch, instead of using existing blog content. It was so much fun to write, because I love teaching on the subject of writing and publishing. I also included a lot of examples from my favorite books of the era, so the whole thing was like a giant book report. Writing that book was one of my fondest memories, and I’m so grateful that it’s still out there, speaking to writers.

RVC: What has doing them taught you?

MK: It’s funny. My agent for the book was Andrea Brown, who was my boss at the time. The book cleared acquisitions and I was pretty much floating when Andrea called. But the first thing she told me was, “This book deal isn’t going to change your life.” If you know Andrea, you’ll laugh. She is wise but can sometimes be quite direct. In the moment, I really thought she was raining on my parade. But she was right. Publishing a book, believe it or not, didn’t change my day-​to-​day life. Sure, it’s probably the accomplishment I’m most proud of, but I didn’t wake up on a yacht the day after it came out, if you know what I mean. What it has done, however, is push me to think deeper and harder about my craft, and to come up with new ideas, better ideas…

The book and the blog are my challenge and my motivation. They both inspire me to keep putting one foot in front of the other. I think I finally understand Andrea’s point. The book deal wasn’t the life-​changing destination. It was the first step of the journey of my life’s work.

RVC: You’ve worked in publishing (Chronicle Books), agenting (Andrea Brown Literary and Movable Type Management), and the freelance world—the bookworld trifecta! Which of these held the most surprises?

MK: I’ll take the “triple threat” label. As a former (tragic) theatre major who couldn’t act, sing, or dance, this is probably the first time it has applied! Agenting was probably the biggest wake-​up call. I was surprised by how big the global publishing world is (hellooooo, Bologna Children’s Book Fair), and also how small, sometimes. Meaning that it sometimes really does come down to category and trend and what a house wants to publish and what the spreadsheet projections say. Projects I loved would fail to sell and utter tripe would shoot up the lists. It was a crash course in the intersection between art and business. And I’m still not entirely sure that it’s not all a complete and total crapshoot.

But one thing I learned is that writers who keep working and honing their craft and coming up with new ideas do tend to persevere. There is a place on shelves for those who are dedicated enough to learn the business side of things. At one point or another, business and art might just intersect with their particular project. The point is to be out there, waiting at that intersection, as frequently as possible. That’s why I like my current job best of all: I can work directly with creators to take their work to the next level. After all, “Success is where preparation and opportunity meet.” I can’t guarantee when opportunity will come, but I’m all about being prepared for it!

RVC: Let’s talk about viable career paths. (I’m thinking about some of my own creative writing students, armed with a world of ambition and a BFA degree in creative writing.) Would you recommend that my students do what you did and try it all out? Or do you think there might be better rewards—creative, financial, or otherwise—in one of those areas? Is one easier to break into? Does one come with more sand traps and alligator pits?

MK: Publishing is a tough field to make a career in, I’m not going to lie to you. To work at a house, you’ll need to live in a place where publishers operate. For a lot of people, that’s NYC. Aspiring editors flood into the city every day. Houses tend to have a lot of entry-​level openings but sometimes career progression is slow. You always answer to someone above you who dictates the flavor of your list.

Agenting, on the other hand, can be a huge trial and error process. You will often work with mentors for a long time before building your own list. But you have more relative autonomy to find your own superstars—and make your own mistakes. You will always be networking, trying to find both clients and editors who you can form relationships with. Houses often take several years to pay for a book in full and agenting is largely commission-​based, unless you’re with a big agency that will pay you a draw. So you are going out to $22 drinks in Manhattan with the help of Mr. Mastercard and hoping it’ll turn a corner soon. Or at least I was! In both of these fields, people get started by interning or reading for publishers or agencies for free. This is hungry, long, and tiring work. You learn a lot but the slush is unrelenting and you can’t pay rent with reader reports.

With freelance editing, you can hang up your shingle with a stylish website and start working with clients immediately. But your first few years are going to be taken up with establishing yourself and marketing your services. If you want to charge money, you’ll need to convince people you’re worth what you’re charging. Reading experience with publishers or agencies comes in very handy here. (Maybe now you know why I went for the triple threat?)

Overall, the people who do well in publishing tend to be hustlers. They will make a name for themselves. There’s always the visionary publisher who everyone wants to work with, the hot agent who has the best projects, the desirable editor with the waiting list. Reputation is key. And from what I remember of my BA/​MFA experience, marketing classes weren’t a requirement. They really should be.

RVC: In your six years as an agent, you ran across oodles of picture book manuscript submissions. While we all know many of the general things that make a book work—interesting characters, compelling plot, appropriate pacing, etc.—what signaled to you that “Wow, this writer is good and I really need to take my time with this manuscript!”?

MK: Small characterizing details about the protagonist always seem to set a project apart, as well as the character’s ability to feel deeply. This last bit always gets me. If a writer is able to capture an emotion in a way that creates the emotion inside of me, I am immediately intrigued. The slush is full of picture book manuscripts that dutifully list a character’s favorite stuffed animals and ice cream flavor and favorite sport in an attempt for readers to “know” that character. But such a list is useless in terms of getting at the marrow of the protagonist as a person. If a writer, on the other hand, is to write, for example, “Petey looked up at the moon. He wondered if anyone in the whole wide world was seeing it right then,” that stirs up a deeper sense of Petey. He’s maybe lonely. He maybe feels like an outsider. I’m not told this, explicitly. But I’d much rather know what a character thinks about or how they see their world or what their experience is within it than…you know…that their favorite color is red.

RVC: If you had to recommend two picture books as mentor texts for beginning picture book writers, which two would you choose? And what lessons would they impart?

MK: I’ll do three to cover plot, voice, and character. Little Blue Truck by Alice Schertle and illustrated by Jill McElmurry has earned its success for a reason. A lot of writers out there want to write in rhyme. But they get so caught up in their rhyming pairs and the style of their prose that they forget—books need story. Here, an unlikely and humble hero saves the day by being who he always is. In the meantime, with all the animal sounds and the high stakes plot, this book has enough movement and fun to be an engaging read-​aloud for even the youngest kids.

A lot of people like to write “sweet” books about how precious childhood is. If this is your goal, study Little Bitty Friends by Elizabeth McPike, illustrated by Patrice Barton. It’s very simple and veeeeeery sweet but the childlike voice and wonder on every page really make it stand out, along with a satisfying last page. It’s also in rhyme. This captures childhood without outright telling about how amazing and wonderful it all is, which I see way too often.

For a great picture book character, study The Adventures of Beekle: The Unimaginary Friend by Dan Santat. This is such a touching story, but without being syrupy or heavy-​handed. Beekle is a great example of a character who has a problem and works creatively and endearingly to solve it. His objective and motivations are really well-​defined. A lot of picture books don’t put their protagonist in the driver’s seat, which is a grave mistake. Ideally, it’s about empowering our young audience!

RVC: While you can handle nearly any type of story in your capacity as a freelance editor, you’ve clearly got a knack for kidlit and picture book authors. What’s the most common challenge picture book clients have when they come to you for guidance and help?

MK: The most common error aspiring picture book writers make is to overtly teach their audience. They have a theme they’re writing about and they want everyone to know it. This is understandable. But a didactic picture book manuscript will die a quick death in the slush. Kids are told what to do all day long. They don’t want an overt lesson positioned at the end of a book they’re reading for fun.

The best way around this common pitfall is to convey the lesson via the main character’s experience, so that the reader can appreciate it firsthand and “discover” it themselves. Empower your protagonist and for the love of all things good—never have a wise adult swoop in at the end to deliver the message. We all love Granny, but the final moment of discovery in a picture book belongs to the child-​age main character.

Here’s one of my links on this very topic: www.kidlit.com/2014/07/14/picture-book-wisdom-from-without-vs-within

RVC: Warning signs a writer should watch for when looking at hiring a freelance editor?

MK: Unfortunately, if they’re too nice, you are not getting value from the service. That’s not to say that I Simon Cowell people’s work to shreds for the fun of it. Or that I level arbitrary criticism just to make it look like I did something. Or that I’m mean. But if your editor has one or two pieces of mild feedback and mostly encouragement, they may make a wonderful critique partner or coffee buddy, but they are giving you unrealistic expectations of your work.

Publishing is a tough business. Rejection is everywhere. If you get a green light and a thumbs up from a “professional,” you’re vulnerable to having your hopes crushed when you actually go out on submission. I’d say it’s better to invest in tough feedback, and do the hard work early in the process, then reap the potential rewards later.

These types of nice editors are very tempting because praise feels good. Work sucks. Being told that you need to do a heavy revision? Just ugh. But the writers who tend to be the most successful in their endeavors are the ones who aren’t afraid of rolling up their sleeves and diving in. Light notes breed complacency. If you’ve tried to submit with no luck, slightly tweaking a manuscript that actually needs substantial revision is only going to bring you the same results.

I consider myself nice to the client but realistic about the work, which sometimes comes across as challenging. But I’ve been building my credibility for ten years. Me blowing smoke at a client just to make them feel warm and fuzzy isn’t going to do either of us any good. My approach comes from experience in the publishing industry, and knowing how cutthroat it can be. Remember, anyone can hang a shingle out and proclaim themselves an editor. Do they have the experience and, more importantly, the level of feedback to back themselves up?

RVC: Rhyme + picture books. Thoughts?

MK: Rhyme can be so tough. Publishers obviously still publish rhyming books. Two of the mentor texts I cited above use rhyme. But most agents and publishers aren’t looking for rhyme and do not put it on their wish lists. Why? Simply put, most amateur rhyme needs more work. Writers find a rhyming pattern and think they’re done. But what about rhythm? Stressed and unstressed syllables? Are they putting rhyme above all else or does the rhyme actually serve the story? There’s an outdated notion that picture books have to rhyme. Well, the industry has shifted tremendously toward looser, more colloquial prose storytelling. The question everyone needs to ask themselves is, “Does this have to be in rhyme? Why?” If you’re just doing it because you think you have to, I’d say that doesn’t bode well. Take it out of rhyme and explore what the story actually is. Most aspiring rhyme writers get so caught up in the style that they neglect the substance, and it really should be the other way around.

RVC: Speed round! Fav dish by your chef husband?

MK: He makes this raw shaved artichoke and arugula salad that I love. There’s also a chicken thigh curry tagine he cooks that’s out of control. Before we had our son, he spent weekends cooking these giant pots of stews and freezer meals. It gets cold in Minnesota, don’tcha know! Some of my favorite memories are of us devouring those stews and goulashes after we’d gotten our baby to sleep. But, really, I gratefully eat anything he makes.

RVC: Your two pugs, Olive and Gertie. Which has a better sense of humor?

MK: Gertie is a true pug and loafs around all day. Then she gets this wild burst of energy sometimes, and runs around crazed. It’s hilarious. Olive, on the other hand, is wily. If there’s even the whiff of food anywhere, don’t turn your back. We were setting up for a party one time and left a chair pulled away from the table. That’s all it took for Olive to decimate our buffet spread. She ate an entire coffee cake!

RVC: #1 poolside drink for a summer scorcher in Minneapolis?

MK: Change “pool” to “lake” or “river” and now you’re talking! We have a cabin on the beautiful St. Croix River, and refreshments are a must on the pontoon boat. I don’t drink, so I’ve gotten pretty good at mocktails. They’re usually built around various flavors of La Croix sparkling water (apricot and tangerine are my favorites) or kombucha (Brew Dr.’s “Love” flavor). Sometimes I’ll throw in some fresh berries and mint. My son wakes up at dawn, which, in the summer is about 5:30 a.m., so cold brew coffee is almost another member of the family.

RVC: Most terrific writing how-​to book you’ve read?

MK: I see everyone on this blog recommending Ann Paul’s Writing Picture Books, so I would toss in another vote for that. I loved The Emotional Craft of Fiction by Donald Maass, even though it’s not geared for picture book writers. It reminds us that we strive to create emotional responses in the reader, and a lot of people forget to consider that.

RVC: Three words that describe your editing style.

MK: Honest, tough, encouraging.

I really don’t want to portray myself as a monster or a jerk. But I will say this: Every writer who has the spark can learn something from working with me. Every project can take one or several steps forward. As long as someone is committed to learning and growing in their craft, I will help them. I have never said “Don’t quit your day job” to a writer, because as long as there’s a willingness to learn, there’s progress to be made. Mean feedback can kill a writer’s motivation for years to come. Trying to package my feedback in a way that’s going to motivate and galvanize a writer, instead of squash their mojo, is a responsibility that I take very seriously.

RVC: Best thing someone said about Writing Irresistible Kidlit.

MK: I am lucky that my book has enjoyed some great reviews from aspiring writers. I can’t pick a specific piece of feedback. One of my editorial clients called me “a one-​woman MFA program,” though, and that has really stuck out to me. The other feedback that I love to get is that I’ve played a small role, whether through my editorial work, book, or blog, in helping a writer either return to writing after a long time away or take the next step in their journey, whether that’s getting agented or a earning a book contract. I really love to be there on the sidelines for these big “dreams coming true” occasions.

Andrea may have been right that signing a book deal doesn’t change a person’s whole life, but that pure awe and satisfaction of publishing a book? It’s like nothing else!

RVC: Thanks so much, Mary Kole!